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Wesley So vs Alexey Shirov
19th Sigeman & Co Chess Tournament (2011)  ·  Slav Defense: Quiet Variation (D11)  ·  1-0
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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 8 OF 8 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jan-12-12  SimonWebbsTiger: thank you <matebay>

I was very happy with this game. It's one of the best games I have ever played. 99% of what I play is utter crap! :D

Jan-12-12  matebay: Here's the pgn sans the annotations...

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. Re1 b5 7. Bb3 d6 8. c3 O-O 9. h3 Na5 10. Bc2 c5 11. d4 Qc7 12. Nbd2 cxd4 13. cxd4 Bd7 14. Nf1 Rac8 15. Ne3 Nc6 16. d5 Nb4 17. Bb1 a5 18. a3 Na6 19. b4 a4 20. Bd2 Qb7 21. Qe2 Nc7 22. Bd3 Nh5 23. g3 g6 24. Kh2 Ng7 25. g4 h5 26. Rg1 Kh7 27. gxh5 Nxh5 28. Nf5 Rce8 29. Ng5+ Kh8 30. Rg4 Bxf5 31. exf5 e4 32. Rh4 Bxg5 33. Rxh5+ Kg7 34. Rxg5 exd3 35. Bc3+ Re5 36. Bxe5+ dxe5 37. Qxe5+ Kh6 38. Rag1 Nxd5 39. fxg6 1-0

and the pgn player.http://pgnplayer.com/

Jan-12-12  SimonWebbsTiger: I will say something about "NN" here.

He is up in his 70s and still a strong player with an ELO around 2050 and regularly plays the veteran class of the Danish Championship. He has been higher than 2050, of course. I also reduced the deficit: I am now on a -1 score against him!

I will also, after providing this draft annotation, ask people to note my style. I feel it is far easier on the eye and nicer to read than AJ's style. But then I got my inspiration for annotating from Bronstein and Zurich 1953.

Jan-12-12  matebay: <I will also, after providing this draft annotation, ask people to note my style. I feel it is far easier on the eye and nicer to read than AJ's style.>

It's not for you to decide.

Can you do an annotation of a Wesley So game? Let's then compare with <AJ>'s, then people can see and decide who's <mas macho>...

Jan-12-12  TiburcioTinio: Why no comment on 21...Nc7? I think that's the losing move. It's pointless. 21...Rc7 was better, to double the rooks at c-file.
Jan-12-12  SimonWebbsTiger: @<matebay>

I did say "I feel", ie, I am expressing a subjective opinion. If the Wes So fans love the AJ notes/style, fine!

I am just annoyed at AJ's style plus the fact he lifts other's work and analysis from engines. When it comes to his games, we have seen the best chess since Kasparov, even better. I parodied it once. It had this jist:

This move is a good move (an exclam...(MAYBE !!). Now...what to do? Well....the comp evals ( I tested this for 14 hours...maybe 14 days???...I forget...) give black - perhaps - better. Could be move A!? (possibly ?1) is ok. I spent literally days studying this..........etc, etc

Don't you see the difference in style? You must be blind if you cannot see the difference in styles, basically standard English composition when annotating a game of chess and the general nature of the respective authors too.

Jan-12-12  matebay: < I am just annoyed at AJ's style plus the fact he lifts other's work and analysis from engines.>

Part of your annotations:

<Nh4 was found by Fritz 12 after the game and not considered by white.>

It seems you quoted an engine. you have committed a mortal sin you have accused AJ of.

Jan-12-12  SimonWebbsTiger: as for providing my own annotations to Grandmaster games.

Well, I have my ideas when studying the greats. I have the odd idea from time to time but it is so very hard to find an improvement on their play. I am not an IM or GM. I lack their powers of analysis (trust me, they can use a computer engine better than us too) and their deep knowledge of chess. The latter point is important. Something I might think is OK would more likely than not be tossed aside quickly by a GM. There is a difference in understanding.

I am not as brazen as to think what I say is good or deeper than a pro's analysis. Improvements can be found on GM analysis, certainly. It's a tough job though. Those, like AJ, who think they can do it with zero thought and running an engine are fools; as are the fools who actually take what they get as "the real deal".

Jan-12-12  SimonWebbsTiger: <<Nh4 was found by Fritz 12 after the game and not considered by white.>

It seems you quoted an engine. you have committed a mortal sin you have accused AJ of.>

Hardly matebay. Everyone analyses and tests their analysis with an engine these days. You'll note the beneficial reason. I didn't even consider Nh4 in my game. The engine found it without a problem.

If you cannot spot the difference between copying and pasting and serious work, using the computer as a helper in one's thought, you might as well give up now.

Jan-12-12  SimonWebbsTiger: @<TiburcioTinio>

well, doubling rooks in my game was an idea. Why else open the c-file with 12...cxd4? Note, though, that black has no way in on the file (at least at that point) because all entry points are guarded by the white bishops and Ne3.

A latent threat of invasion is, well...latent. It's like what my opponent said about ...f6 instead of ...h5. White will have to do something to capitalise on his advantage. But when you commit, you also leave something weak. Chess logic dictates that won't be enough for counterplay but then logic often goes out the window at the board, with tension and the "tick-tock" of the clock.

Jan-12-12  SimonWebbsTiger: I look forward to the <Tagalog Tag Team> providing examples of their annotations. I took up the challange. Gave a draft example, now it's your turn.

Over to you: iking, matebay, tuberculoid tinio, hatsis, voratco, etc, etc.

You're all mouth and no trousers. That is why you need a weed like AJ to do an analysis of this game (a very boring game I zipped through in 30 seconds on chessbase, with no interest) because you are simply so weak, patzers are better than you! If I am wrong, why not analyse it for yourselves?

Jan-12-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  tpstar: <SimonWebbsTiger> That's great how you are using this teaching project as an opportunity to promote chess, since the purpose of this site is to learn from players stronger than yourself, while guiding those who are weaker.

I understand Wesley So will be holding a fundraiser simultaneous but you'd never know about it otherwise.

Bakla or half-and-half cannot come out in RP because they get "stab to death" - remember?!

Jan-12-12  matebay: <as are the fools who actually take what they get as "the real deal">

"He is the real deal" said GM Susan Polgar in referring to Wesley.

If GM Polgar is a fool, I can't imagine what you are...

Jan-12-12  timhortons: <simon>

simon i might be the ist one who ask aj to annotate wesley game, that was the time that fighting at so page had been dragging for many days already, idea come to my mind that with aj talking about chess might give fresh air to the page, but bs! it create more kibitz war at cg ,spreading fire to another page.

Jan-12-12  timhortons: <simon>

id seen your analysis and also run this game in my engine.

<rybka give this evaluation to blacks 26...kh7>

New game - simonwebbstiger - NN


click for larger view

1. (1.22): 27.gxh5 Nxh5 28.Nf5 Rce8 29.Nxe7 Rxe7 30.Nh4 Rh8 31.Nf5 Bxf5 32.exf5 Nf6 33.fxg6+ Kg7 34.gxf7+ Kxf7 35.Bg6+ Kf8 36.Bg5 Ncxd5 37.Qd2 Rd7 38.Rac1 Rd8 2. (0.51): 27.Rac1 Rh8 28.Kg2 Qb6 29.Rh1 Kg8 30.g5 Kh7 3. (0.48): 27.Kg2 Kg8 28.Rac1 Rfd8

<but you didnt mention anything about it in your analysis, i got no special training in chess except for my books that i seldom read and engine i rely upon in replaying the games, obviously black blundered here, noh?,or its the point where white build up some advantage in the game>

Jan-12-12  SimonWebbsTiger: @<timhortons>

Oh gosh. Good intentions always get trod on like beautiful flowers do!

I only started ragging AJ because he started saying he wanted fans in your country. I thought that the weirdest of things to say. I pointed out how weird I thought expression was to AJ, actually. He said fans are his friends!

I had expected him to say: did I say fans? D'OH! I wanted to make new friends.

I can't speak Tagalog (surprise!) but do know the Wesley So page is as crap as it can get at cg.com

The only things I will say about Wes is he is a very talented young GM who, if I go by the written and videoed interviews with him in English, has got to be a very modest soul who knows he must get much better to challenge the elite.

He is a great lad.

Jan-12-12  matebay: <He is a great lad.> Go SimonWebbsTiger! Go Wesley!
Jan-12-12  SimonWebbsTiger: @<TimH>

I haven't given too many variations here because, as said, it's a rough draft of my analysis. Want the full analysis? Actually, I won't bore you with a wait or with the analysis! My club mates will have the dubious pleasure of that boredom when I finish the article for my club. :D

Jan-12-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: Why don't the TTT just get their own engines, fire them up and get the same "analysis" A.J. furnishes them?
Jan-12-12  timhortons: <Want the full analysis?>

that would be interesting, i saved this game anyways, i could run it back anytime, please give me a heads up when you got the full analysis, i could visit your forum:)

Jan-12-12  timhortons: <simon>

sorry, i just realized u dont have a forum, you could post it anytime in my forum so i could check it out, i want to learn from your analysis, mine is solely relied upon the engine.

<26...Nce8!!! instead of 26...Kh7>

we humans move and plan our game different from the engines.

but he could have save this game if he seen the 26.Nce8...look at the position after 29 as rybka have played it.


click for larger view

1. (0.56): 29.Rad1 Qb6 30.Be3 Qb7 31.Ng5 Kh8 32.Rc1 Rxc1 2. (0.39): 29.Rac1 Rxc1 30.Bxc1[] Qb6 31.Be3 Qb7 32.Qd2 Kh7 33.Ng3 Neg7 34.Ng5+ Bxg5 35.Bxg5 Rc8 3. (0.39): 29.Rae1 Qb6 30.Be3 Qb7

Jan-12-12  SimonWebbsTiger: sorry Tim

how did the bishop get to f6?

Jan-12-12  timhortons: <how did the bishop get to f6?>

26...Nce8!

im just at depth 14 on this, maybe you could run your engine on infinite analysis and go in depth analysis in critical points of the game, i always observe the game relayed at icc, and even GMs, on the spot of the moment seldom give comments unless they are focus on it or have their engine run as well, many times at icc id seen some IM and GM give a wrong kibitz on how the game goes on and they become a laughting stock of patzers with strong engine at their disposal.

Btw you know this opening well, as i run it, you play flawlessly until your opponent made mistake.

<the engine run a different playing line at depth 14 per move>

i just run the game checking what would be the position if after 26.Nce8 you did 27.gxh5 27...Nxh5 28.Nf5<cant take with pawn, king is open check> 28...Bf6


click for larger view

evaluation in my previous post.

Jan-12-12  timhortons: that knight on e8 is critical move for him,i hope some with deep knowledge of chess could enlighten us, not only AJ, ahem ,hehehe.

as your pieces are all pose to strike anytime on black king side, that knight in e8 could play a decisive role in defense.

Mar-10-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  offramp: I much prefer <SimonWebbsTiger>'s style of annotation. This is chess, after all, not Tyson v Berbick.

What is the point of the flashing lights, exclams for every move, coloured pages, [diagram?]s, double-exclams, triple exclams, thousands and thousands of asterisks.... It's just the most ridiculous, over-the-top epilepsy-inducing nonsense on the entire web! It is saved only by its unintentional comedy... And all that for a game that few people would play through twice! LOL!

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