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|May-02-13|| ||ChemMac: <Patriot> 24...Kh8 25.NXg6+ Kg8 26.NXe5 wins the B, right?|
|May-02-13|| ||Gilmoy: Saw that <Patriot: (b,c) 24..Qxe7 25.Rxe6! Qxe6> is the ultra-rare <Plachutta interference>, deflecting one line mover onto another one's line (which cuts the 2nd one's defense, here Re8-sees-Be6), and then deflecting it again (which cuts the 1st one's defense, here Q*7-sees-h7). That may entail two sacs: here White pays an R.|
<(a) 28.Bc5+; (b,c) 27.Bc5+> I saw that idea too, but 27/28.Rf3+ wins instantly, after Fischer vs Gligoric, 1959. Fischer bamboozled Black into taking a "free" f-pawn just to achieve the same end-kill.
<(e) 24..Kh8 25.Nxg6+ Kg8 26.Ne7+> or 26.Nxe5 Δ Bd4, and 26..Qg7 27.Rxe6 with all kinds of crush.
|May-02-13|| ||M.Hassan: "Medium"
White to play 24.?
Materials are exactly equal.
Black Queen has to be diverted from rank 7 for White to start an attack through h7 and this will need some sacrifice:
Black now can start the assault:
Time for Black to resign and for me to check how the game was played
|May-02-13|| ||The Rocket: Pretty straightforward because of mate threats.
Some of these tactical solutions feel a bit like IQ-tests in that it's an excluding process. Which moves are legal after each continuation, and of course a pattern emerging for the checkmate(or material win). Yet chess and IQ are not in the slightest bit related!(they IQ-tested top grandmasters with no significant results).
|May-02-13|| ||Bartimaeus: An interesting puzzle today. White is gunning for the Black king. The defenses seem to be overburdened with threats from white on multiple fronts: on the g-h files and via the backrank on the d-file. The black Queen is quite overloaded and that seems to be the motif to exploit.|
Looking at various options in such a cluttered setup, as usual, its the Kinght to the rescue. Ne7+ seems to be a nice catalyst. However, black can respond in different ways and its a bit tricky to get the correct lines in all of them.
A) 24. Ne7+ Rxe7 25. Rd8+ Re8 26. Rxe8+ Qxe8 27. Qxh7+ Kf8 28. Bc5+ and black will lose the Queen with mate to follow shortly
B) 24. Ne7+ Qxe7 25. Rxe6 Qxe6 (Qf7 transforms to line A) 26. Qxh7+ Kf8 27. Bc5+ Re7 28. Qh8+ Qg8 (Kf7 Rh7#) 29. Bxe7+ Kf7 30. Rh7+ Qxh7 31. Qxh7+ and black has a lost endgame
C) 24. Ne7+ Kh8 25. Nxg6+ Kg8 26. Nxe5 Qe7 27. Rxe6 and wherever the Queen moves, black will win atleast the Bishop or more and get into an easily won endgame. I'd probably go with C though all of these options are quite hopeless.
Looking at the game, seems like black threw in the towel after 24. Ne7+. A nice puzzle showing the power of the Knight in exploiting the positional weaknesses and opening up the game in a populous board.
|May-02-13|| ||agb2002: The material is even.
Black threatens 24... gxf5.
The black queen protects h7. This suggests 24.Ne7+ combined with Rxe6 or Rd8 to divert her:
A) 24... Qxe7 25.Rxe6 Qxe6 (25... Qf7 26.Rxe8+ Qxe8 27.Qxh7+ Kf8 28.Bc5+ Qe7 29.Qxe7+ Kg8 30.Qf8) 26.Qxh7+ Kf8 27.Bc5+ Re7 (27... Qe7 28.Rf3#) 28.Qh8+ Qg8 (28... Kf7 29.Rh7#) 29.Rf3+ Ke8 30.Qxg8+ Kd7 31.Bxe7, etc.
B) 24... Rxe7 25.Rd8+ Re8 (25... Qe8 26.Rxe8+ Rxe8 27.Qxh7+ Kf8 28.Bc5+ wins) 26.Rxe8+ Qxe8 27.Qxh7+ Kf8 28.Bc5+ Qe7 29.Qxe7+ Kg8 30.Qf8#.
C) 24... Kh8 25.Nxg6+ Kg8 (25... Qxg6 26.Qxg6) 26.Nxe5 Qg7 (26... Qe7 27.Rxe6; 26... Qb7 27.Rxe6) 27.Rxe6 wins material (27... Rxe6 28.Qxe6; 27... Qxh6 28.Rxe8+).
|May-02-13|| ||Pedro Fernandez: < ChemMac: <Patriot> 24...Kh8 25.NXg6+ Kg8 26.NXe5 wins the B, right? > 26...Qg7 27.Qxe6+! Rxe6 28.Rd8+ Qf8 29.Rxf8+ Kxf8 30.Nxc4, etc. Yep! you're right.|
|May-02-13|| ||Bartimaeus: <Pedro Fernandez> Presume you mean 27. Rxe6 instead of 27. Qxe6+?. In the Kh8 line, if White takes on e6 with Queen instead of Rook then its unclear instead of outright winning as in other lines as the material at the end (after 30. Nxc4) is pretty even.|
|May-02-13|| ||SamAtoms1980: 24.Ne7+ looks like it could do something:
24....Qxe7 25.Rxe6 Qxe6 26.Qxh7+ Kf8 27.Qh8+
24....Rxe7 25.Rd8+ Re8 26.Rxe8+ Qxe8 27.Qxh7+ Kf8 28.Bc5+
And over the board, the first move was the kingtipper...
|May-02-13|| ||morfishine: (1) <24.Ne7+> Rxe7 25.Rd8+ Re8 26.Rxe8+ Qxe8 27.Qxh7+ Kf8 28.Bc5+ |
(2) If <24...Qxe7> 25.Rxe6 Qf7 26.Rxe8+ Qxe8 27.Qxh7+ Kf8 28.Bc5+
PM: Oops, forgot about 24...Kh8; No matter, Black is toast after 24.Ne7+ Kh8 25.Nxg6+ Kg8 26.Nxe5
|May-02-13|| ||mistreaver: Thursday.WHite to play.24.Medium?
After relatively long search i hit upon the following idea:
I think that white wins in any case:
25 Rd8+ Re8
26 Rxe8+ Qxe8
27 Qxh7+ Kf8
28 Bc5+ and black has to part with his queen
25 Rxe6 Qxe6 (else Rxe8+)
26 Qxh7+ Kf8
27 Bc5+ Re7
28 Qh8+ Qg8
29 Bxe7+ and white wins
25 Nxg6+ Kg8
26 Nxe5 and i guess white should win
Time to check.
Yep, that's it
|May-02-13|| ||gofer: Yesterday, I saw Bxg6, but wondered what was so great with it
after Kg7. Compared to yesterday, this one is easy!
<24 Ne7+ ...>
Option 1 : Ignore the sacrifice
24 ... Kh8
25 Nxg6+ Kg8
26 Ne7+ ...
At this point where we are repeating the position black
can choose to go for Option 2 or 3 instead...
26 ... Kh8
27 Rxe6 Rxe7
Option 2: Take with the rook
24 ... Rxe7
25 Rd8+ Re8+
26 Rxe8+ Qxe8+
27 Qxh7+ Kf8
28 Bc5+ mating
Option 3: Take with the queen
24 ... Qxe7
25 Rxe6 Qxe6
26 Qxh7+ Kf8
27 Bc5+ ...
27 ... Re7
28 Qh8+ Qg8
29 Qf6+ mating
27 ... Qe7
28 Bxe7+ Rxe7
29 Qh8+ Kf7
30 Rh7+ Ke6
31 Rxe7+ Kxe7
32 Qg7+ Kd8
|May-02-13|| ||cocker: Why ever didn't Black take the knight on move 20 or 21?|
|May-02-13|| ||vinidivici: <cocker: Why ever didn't Black take the knight on move 20 or 21?>|
If take the knight at move 20 with g-pawn: 21.Rg3+ will finish black.
If with e-pawn: I dont so sure what is the bad side of this move.
If take the knight at the move 21: 22.Rh5 with the threat of Rg5+, or if 22.Rh5 Qe7 23.Rd6! with strong attack for white!
|May-02-13|| ||sfm: <cocker: Why ever didn't Black take the knight on move 20 or 21?>
That is IMHO a very good question, and wonder why all the solution-posters usually don't find it interesting to comment on things like this as well.|
19.Sxf5!!,exN is of course answered with 20.Nd5 and Black needs both to protect h7 and to protect against 21.Nxf6+,RxN 22.Rd8+, and that is not easy.
So black removes the knight on c3, but it does not help, as he has to give his dark-squared bishop.
20.-,exN 21.Rd6!,Qg7 (-.Qf7 22.Bd4) 22.Qg5 and problems are towering up, with threats like Bd4 and Rxh7 and Rh6.
Nice that rook on d6 also prevents Nb8-c6 that would prevent White for putting his bishop on d4.
|May-02-13|| ||zb2cr: I missed this one--I saw 24. Ne7+, but was unable to see my way through all variations.|
|May-02-13|| ||chinokoli: This particular variation is interesting... 24.Ne7+ Kh8 25.Nxg6+ Kg8 26.Ne7+ Kh8 27.Rxe6 Rxe7 28.Ref6 , as the Black queen is lost.|
|May-02-13|| ||Nick46: <Patriot: Material is even. ...>
Thank you for your piercing insight and pertinent explanations. I'd be lost without 'em.|
|May-02-13|| ||okiesooner: After 24. Ne7+ Qxe7 25. Rxe6 Qxe6 26. Qxh7 Kf8 27. Rf3+ seems to win immediately also. If 27...Qf7 28 Rxf7#. If 27...Qf6 28 Rxf6#. Or if 27...Qf5 28. gxf5 followed by 29. fxg6# (28...gxf5 29 Rxf5#). If 27...Qf5 28. gxf5 Re7 29. fxg6+ Re7 30. Rf7 and Black must give up his Rook to prevent an immediate mate (30...Kd7 31 Rxe7+).|
|May-02-13|| ||kevin86: This one is a little ahead of me;I did see the knight check,but couldn't follow it to the end... but it looks like black will be mated or lose his queen.|
|May-02-13|| ||Pedro Fernandez: < Bartimaeus: <Pedro Fernandez> Presume you mean 27. Rxe6 instead of 27. Qxe6+?. In the Kh8 line, if White takes on e6 with Queen instead of Rook then its unclear instead of outright winning as in other lines as the material at the end (after 30. Nxc4) is pretty even.> Of course! sorry and thanks by your well aimed observation.|
|May-02-13|| ||cyclon: I'd suggest today 24. Ne7+ because if 24. -Qxe7 ( 24. -Rxe7 25. Rd8+ Re8 26. Rxe8+ Qxe8 27. Qxh7+ Kf8 28. Bc5+ curfew ) 25. Rxe6 Qxe6 26. Qxh7+ Kf8 27. Rf3+ and closing-time. Then, after 24. Ne7, if 24. Kh8 follows 25. Nxg6+ Kg8 26. Nxe5 and where-ever the Black Queen moves, then comes 27. Rxe6 winning. So, 24. Ne7+ and curfew with cufflinks.|
|May-02-13|| ||Patriot: <<ChemMac>: <Patriot> 24...Kh8 25.NXg6+ Kg8 26.NXe5 wins the B, right?> I didn't consider 26.Nxe5 at the time but I knew white had no problems.|
<Gilmoy> Thanks, I've never heard of the "plachutta interference". Thanks for the additional analysis as well!
<<Nick46>: <Patriot: Material is even. ...> Thank you for your piercing insight and pertinent explanations. I'd be lost without 'em.> You sound a bit sarcastic but ok, I can handle it. I usually don't assess positions in detail and don't always note material differences. Besides, I worked it out around 12:30am and wanted to go to bed soon!
But here's a short summary on my thinking. I really didn't see anything obvious at first and seeing that white's pieces are swarming the weak looking black king, I felt it was warranted to begin looking microscopically at every forcing candidate (aside from knowing it's a puzzle). The white queen and rook were aligned against h7, the rook could capture at any moment on e6, Rd8 may become possible in some lines if black's rook ever left that rank, Qg7# would be possible if the queen could be diverted from the 7th rank, and of course the knight is hanging although I wasn't sure if it could be captured safely on the next move. Rxe6 was my first thought but after ...Rxe6 I couldn't see anything. So Ne7+ quickly became of interest and the rest fell into place. I didn't spend time looking for something better.
|May-02-13|| ||BOSTER: Imagine such situation.
I'm a student, <sfm> is a teacher.
<sfm> "I want ask you one more question .
" <I wonder why all the solution-posters usually don't find it interesting to comment on things like this (exf5) as well>".
"Most participants in this site have never read the games. There are some exceptions like <RV>, <Once>, <patzer-2> and maybe couple more. Stuff like that behind their horizon".
"But this is an another question".
"You are a funny guy, you know that?".
|May-02-13|| ||MostlyWatch: One said: "Material is even."
Next one said "Thank you for your piercing insight" etc.
I myself didn't see either comment until I'd 1) miscounted white's pieces (twice), thought he was down one, and 2) finally counted a 3rd time and realized that they ARE even. This is why I don't play. I don't even play my kid.
I saw Ne7+, thought it was intriguing, but couldn't get much further with it.
With those two data you can estimate what my rating would be were I to have one.
And now MY piercing insight: a beginner comes into this and after 24 the moves just cease. If they look around, they will see a small 1-0 some distance away from that. Even if they see that, why does white win? Is there some secret rule they don't know? If they hang around a while, they'll learn that black resigned at this point. Maybe they suspected this but how to verifiy it?
Why not put "resigns" or "black resigns" at the end of the list of moves: 24 Ne7+ black resigns or if it's checkmate, "checkmate"...
That would be crystal clear, and wouldn't cost much.
After all, why drive beginners away in frustration? If it were more popular there would be advantages X, Y, and Z which you can all fill in yourselves
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