< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Jul-21-12|| ||perfidious: <Rosbach> See some of the kibitzes above for various ideas.|
|Jul-21-12|| ||Sideways: Game Collection: Alekhine's Block|
|Jul-21-12|| ||KingV93: Very instructive puzzle. I went with ♕xh5 and am not upset that I missed this one, very subtle.|
|Jul-21-12|| ||ferri1234: I saw 12 Bf6, but after 12...Nd7 how can white win?|
|Jul-21-12|| ||kevin86: My move was Bxh7 alas,the wrong bishop sac.|
|Jul-21-12|| ||hierophante: <ferri1234: I saw 12 Bf6, but after 12...Nd7 how can white win?> 12...Nd7 is a very clever, patient try to defend the holes in Black's king position. But looking at the various lines after 13. Bxh7+, it appears that Black's attempt is not enough. One of the more amusing lines is 13. Bxh7+ Kxh7 (13...Kh8 14. Bxg7+ with crushing attack) 14. Qxh5+ Kg8 15. Bxg7 Kxg7 16. Nf5+ Kf6 (else forced mate on g7) 17. Qh6+! Kxf5 18. e4+ Kg4 19. Nf3 and Black can't counter both mate threats on g5 and h4.|
|Jul-21-12|| ||chrisowen: Soften the meathook and expand your catch my drift la beouf bf6! The |
g5 oose in felled f7 romp in fatten it just afraid too f5 stirs up
trouble in family it is locking down rammed h5 instead and why it
lion in lerkio it shuts in d3 soar f6 first and qualify it oh in
doors a bientot queen and bishop also effects the black runk around
h7 g8 f7 or example in d7 it doesnt save in form
<12.bf6 nd7 13.bxh7+ kxh7 14.qxh5+ kg8 bxg7>
An inte-resting black bishop journey all note it book in h4 against
0-0 as shelter a pin bf6 slack off in might exchange h7 laundry it
flush out king8 in low invasion settles in h5 tow in sth7 re eta
kingh7 or in stride ar guard in f5 gash all omnipresent elbow in
read just outside it her in h5 ie theory it doesnt hold up unless a
draw i sense the cards stacked in blacks favour!
|Jul-21-12|| ||Eggman: Found 12.Bf6! pretty quickly but it's the kind of classy move I would almost certainly miss in a speed game. In a tournament, I think I would find it most of the time, but it helps that White is down the exchange and could really use something.|
Of course, having a classic example of a similar tactic indelibly stamped on one's mind helps: Fischer vs Benko, 1963.
|Jul-21-12|| ||doubledrooks: 12. Bf6 offers the bishop at the gain of preventing f5, which would block the b1-h7 diagonal and allow Black's queen to defend h5. For example:|
a. 12...exf6 13. Qxh5 h6 14. Qf5
b. 12...Bxf6 13. Qxh5
c. 12...Nd7 13. Bxh7+
c.1 13...Kxh7 14. Qxh5+ Kg8 15. Bxg7 Kxg7 16. Qg5+ Kh7/8 17. Nf5 Rg8 18. Qh6#
c.2 13...Kh8 14. Bxg7+ Kxg7 15. Qxh5 f5 16. Bg6 Qd8 17. Bxf5 Rxf5 18. Nxf5+ and White will be up two pawns
|Jul-21-12|| ||jancotianno: <sneaky> I thought of the fischer-benko 1963 game as well to solve this one.|
|Jul-21-12|| ||Jimfromprovidence: After 12 Bf6 c4?! this is the position.
click for larger view
There's a pretty forced mate in five for white here.
|Jul-21-12|| ||PachelbelMelody: >RE:
>ferri1234: I saw 12 Bf6, but after >12...Nd7 how can white win?
12. Bf6 Nd7
13. Bxh7 Kxh7
14. Qxh5+ Kg8
15. Bxg7 Kxg7
16. Qg5+ Kh8
17. Nf5 (mate coming)
|Jul-21-12|| ||scormus: <Jim 12 ... c4?!> yes you're right :) And about it being pretty as well.|
I'll make getting your puzzle my consolation prize for the day ;)
|Jul-21-12|| ||sevenseaman: <There's a pretty forced mate in five for white here.>|
I cannot see it Jim. will wait for your solution.
|Jul-21-12|| ||agb2002: White has a knight for a rook and a pawn.
Black may consider 12... f6 13.Bf4 e5 14.Bg3 Bd5 15.Be2 Bf7.
This suggests 12.Bxh7+ Kxh7 (12... Kh8 13.Qxh5 and mate soon) 13.Qxh5+ Kg8 (13... Bh6 14.Qxh6+ Kg8 15.Nf5 and mate next) 14.Bf6 (14.Nf5 f6), threatening 15.Bxg7
and blocking Black's f-pawn:
A) 14... Bxf6 15.Nf5
A.1) 15... e6 16.Qg4+ Kh7(8) 17.O-O-O followed by Rh1+ winning.
A.2) 15... Qc6 16.Qg4+ Kh7(8) 17.e4
A.2.a) 17... Rg8 18.Qh5#.
A.2.b) 17... Qa4 18.Ke2 Ba6+ 19.Kf3 + -.
A.2.c) 17... d5 18.O-O-O Bg5 19.Rh1+ Kg8 20.Qxg5+ Qg6 21.Nxe7+ Kg7 22.Nxg6 fxg6 23.Qe6 + - [Q+P vs R+B].
A.3) 15... Bxg2 16.Qg4+ Kh7(8) 17.Qxg2 with the double threat 18.Qxa8 and 18.O-O-O.
B) 14... exf6 15.Nf5 (threatening 16.Qg4 and 17.Qxg7#)
B.1) 15... Bc8 16.Nh6+
B.1.a) 16... Bxh6 17.Qxh6 Qa4 18.Ke2 Rd8 19.Rh1 + -.
B.1.b) 16... Kh8 17.O-O-O followed by Rh1.
B.1.c) 16... Kh7 17.O-O-O Bxh6 18.Rh1 + -.
B.2) 15... Qd7 16.Qg4 Qxf5 17.Qxf5 and the attack seems to compensate Black's material advantage.
|Jul-21-12|| ||agb2002: I should have considered a change in the order of moves when I noticed the difficulties of 14... exf6. My line B.1.a fails because of 17... Qe6 (instead of 17... Qa4) 18.O-O-O f5.|
|Jul-21-12|| ||Jimfromprovidence: After 12 Bf6 c4?!, the forced mate is 13 Qxh5 cxd3 (or 13...h6) 14 Qg4 exf6 (forced) 15 Nf5!|
click for larger view
One nuisance check is left, 15...Qxe3+, then mate comes after 16 fxe3 as black has no defenses left.
|Jul-21-12|| ||Patriot: <agb2002> The move that best leads to considering 12.Bf6 is the move actually played, 12.Qxh5. This threat of mate in one and the problematic 12...f5 is a big clue to 12.Bf6 first. It's amazingly simple in hind-sight and is a good example of where one candidate move suggests another.|
But, I never considered 12.Qxh5 either. Instead I locked on to 12.Bxh7+ without considering all of my options ("look wide before you look deep") because it is so forcing and typical in positions like this.
|Jul-21-12|| ||DarthStapler: What if black plays 12...e6? 13. Qxh5 h6 14. Bxg7 Kxg7 then what? Or 13. Bxh7+ Kxh7 14. Qxh5+ Kh8 and what does white do? Or 13. Bxg7 Kxg7 14. Qxh5 h6? The key is the e6 pawn covering the f5 square. I don't see a win for white in any of these lines|
|Jul-21-12|| ||Shams: <Darth> 12...e6 13.Qxh5 h6 14.Qg4 is death of the instant variety.|
|Jul-21-12|| ||TheBish: A Kohler vs G Antal, 2012|
White to play (12.?) "Very Difficult", White is down an Exchange and pawn.
Black is ready for 12. Qxh5 f5! 13. Qxe8 Rxe8 14. Nxf5, which returns a pawn but kills the attack and remains ahead in material. Also, the bishop sac doesn't work as there is no time to bring a rook to the h-file to follow up, and after 12. Bxh7+ Kxh7 13. Qxh5+ Kg8 14. Nf5 f6 Black defends. I got the idea for what I think is the winning move from a famous Fischer-Benko game, where Fischer played Rf6!!, blocking the f-fawn when Black had his queen on e8 in a similar type of attack on h7.
I'm giving this move two exclams, assuming I'm correct! The idea is to threaten 13. Qxh5 and 14. Qxh7#, without allowing the defense ...f5.
Not 12...Bxf6 13. Qxh5 or 12...exf6 13. Qxh5 h6 14. Qf5 and Black will have to give up his queen to stop mate (14...Qxe3+ followed by moving the rook), and if 14...Be4 15. Nxe4! preserves the bishop for the mating attack. Also, the defense 12...e5 fails to 13. Qxh5 e4 14. Qg5.
13. Bxh7+! Kxh7 14. Qxh5+ Kg8 15. Bxg7 Kxg7
Of course 15...f5 holds out longer, but White can win a pawn and the Exchange back with a better game after 16. Qh8+ Kf7 17. Bxf8 Qxf8 18. Qh5+.
16. Qg5+ Kh7
Or 16...Kh8 17. Qh6+ Kg8 18. Nf5 followed by 19. Qg7#.
17. Nf5 Rg8 18. Qh6#.
Time for the moment of truth!
|Jul-21-12|| ||sevenseaman: <Jimfromprovidence> Yes. A very interesting and charming thought line indeed. I wasted time and effort in preserving the B at d3.|
|Jul-21-12|| ||sevenseaman: < DarthStapler: What if black plays 12...e6? 13. Qxh5 h6 14. Bxg7 Kxg7 then what? Or 13. Bxh7+ Kxh7 14. Qxh5+ Kh8 and what does white do? Or 13. Bxg7 Kxg7 14. Qxh5 h6? The key is the e6 pawn covering the f5 square. I don't see a win for white in any of these lines>|
I think simple answer to your bind lies in dropping the LSB idea and playing 14. Qg5. Here;
12...e6? 13. Qxh5 h6 <14. Qg5>
No defense avails.
|Jul-21-12|| ||M.Hassan: "Very Difficult" White to play 12.?
White is behind. He has lost a Rook+pawn and has gained a Knight.
The immediate move one sees, is 12.Qxh5 that can be followed by Qxh7#. The only defence that Black has is 12...f5 intercepting the diagonal b1h7 and
rendering White's attack redundant.
White can stop movement of f pawn by:
<if...(B or e)xf6 13.Qxf5 Be4 14.Bxe4 Nc6 15.Qxh7#>
Time to check
|Jul-22-12|| ||Patriot: <M.Hassan> I like the way you found 12.Bf6. Seeing 12.Qxh5 and the defense 12...f5 is the key to even considering 12.Bf6. Sometimes candidate moves lead to other candidate moves. Your approach is very logical.|
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