< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Apr-17-13|| ||whiteshark: <wierba: I found 18. Nxf7 Kxf7, then 19. Ng5+ Ke8 20 Qxe6+ Qe7 21 Qxg6+ Kd8 22. Ne6+> That would have been my solutuion, too.|
|Apr-17-13|| ||morfishine: After <18.Nxg6 fxg6 19.Qxe6+ Qe7 20.Qxg6+ Qf7 21.Bxf5> White is up 3-pawns leaving Black in a hopeless position|
PM: Either Black knew it was hopeless in the long run, and so played 19...Ne7 allowing 20.Bg6#; or he overlooked it, which is hard to imagine what-with him being an FIDE Master
|Apr-17-13|| ||FSR: <morfishine> Black played this whole game more like a FIDO Master than a FIDE Master, starting with panicking in response to White's Brand X response to his Caro-Kann.|
|Apr-17-13|| ||Abdel Irada: More like Fido than master, meseemeth. From the outset, he cringed like a whipped cur.|
|Apr-17-13|| ||FSR: I'd never seen 4.Ne5 before, but it's not as goofy as I'd thought. White's scored a decent 56.4% with it. Opening Explorer And Aschenbrenner isn't the only player to lose to it in 20 moves. M Sebag vs Xu Yuanyuan, 2004 But he is the only one to get <mated> in 20 moves. See http://www.chessgames.com/perl/ches... OTOH, here's a Black win in 21. F Garcia Jimenez vs J Kvisla, 2013|
|Apr-17-13|| ||morfishine: FWIW: 18.Nxf7 appears to be overwhelming too: After <18.Nxf7 Kxf7 19.Ng5+ Ke8
20.Nxe6 Qb6 21.Nc7+ Kd8> and here White can either capture the rook 22.Nxa8 or continue to rip Black's position apart with 22.Nxd5 putting FIDO in the doghouse|
But yeah, 18.Nxg6 is cleaner
|Apr-17-13|| ||SamAtoms1980: Yeah, I went with 18.Nxf7 too, because 18....Kxf7 19.Ng5+ and 20.Qxe6(+) looks nasty.|
|Apr-17-13|| ||Abdel Irada: <OTOH, here's a Black win in 21. F Garcia Jimenez vs J Kvisla, 2013>|
Let's leave Kvisla out of this, or he may bring his children, and then we'll be surrounded by Kvislings.
|Apr-17-13|| ||goodevans: IMHO the level of analysis needed to determine which is preferable between 18.Nxf7 and 18.Nxg6 isn't really in keeping with a Wednesday puzzle.|
|Apr-17-13|| ||awfulhangover: This is crazy. I also went for Nxf7, but comps are better than James Bond in surviving lethal threats. 18. Nxf7 Kxf7 19. Nxg5+ Kg8 20. Qxe6+ Kg7 21. Qf7+ Kh6 22. Bxf5 gxf5 23. Qxd5 and my arrogant buddy Houdini just played Qf6 with just a 1.02 plus edge.|
|Apr-17-13|| ||paulalbert: Nxf7 seemed so natural I just went with it without even considering anything else. But as Emanuel Lasker said " See a good move, stop; look for a better one."|
|Apr-17-13|| ||offramp: That was Lasker, was it?|
|Apr-17-13|| ||kevin86: I saw this one! Black practically mated himself!|
|Apr-17-13|| ||YouRang: Seeing the discovered attack on Pe6, I found the key moves pretty quickly: <18.Nxg6 fxg6 19.Qxe6+>|
Here black has the choice of blocking check one of 3 ways: with the queen, the bishop, or the knight. I ruled out the knight right away due to Bxg6# -- so I was surprised to see this as black's move in the game.
In the other cases, white has Qxg6+ followed by Qxf5 -- regaining the spent knight with 3 pawns to the good, not to mention developmental and king-safety problems for black.
|Apr-17-13|| ||chrisowen: Airtight case for never look a gift horse in g6,
mouth I adjacent 18.Nxg6 or 18.Nxf7 both look to,
Let's inspect the first need i think it now in fending him off it horses event in ado it ko in,
us again genial one eingang lean in e5 such effervesence spring in I engaged 18.Nxg6 light in ascendancy it mean in f7xg6 a necessity 19.qxe6+.
Jaw in ok it escape in energy black's best it another bind in e7 when g6 land aplomb in a 21.Bxf5 white three pawns up having inceed point back it bogged in a quagmire 18.Nxf7 low victory a quad,
grip old in low duty raid queen in effect after g5,
bind us termed in blots again good game indeed,
cruise a wave in gab a bequeath 18...kxf7 19.ng5+ in wide a gabled horse and queen gauge light ok in e5 bagger f7 in king ellucidate queen in a quandry.
I adversary 19...Kf6 draw down 20.qxe6+ again sidestep over d5 too fan the flames king in g7,
worthy a gripper d5 engine suggest it (2.50) dip in e6 etc at enect in badge a queen in dagger of d5 f6,
pawns point the charge night off in e7 hand bags right bad bishop in a f5 or 20.Bxg6#
|Apr-17-13|| ||Jack Kerouac: Like the F7 take.|
|Apr-17-13|| ||MountainMatt: 18. Nxg6, then some other stuff, and white wins. Booyah!|
|Apr-17-13|| ||MiCrooks: Not sure if others have commented but Nxf7 while giving you a nice advantage is inferior to Nxg6 so partial credit at best.|
Nxf7 you don't get the piece back...you can get a Rook for two pieces along with a host of pawns, but the other line is much clearer (and better).
I saw some comments on Rg8...but Bxf5 taking advantage of the pin with the Knight then retreating to h4 covers everything and garners a piece plus a pawn while leaving Black still struggling.
Really no contest which is better.
|Apr-17-13|| ||waustad: I looked at both knight sacs but finally picked the weaker one. It sounds like doing these puzzles: http://chesstempo.com/chess-tactics...
I often get the, "... is a good move but not the computer's first move," message because I found a way to win material when there was mate.|
|Apr-17-13|| ||Jambow: Nxf7 was convincing enough for me like others. Although Nxg6 was quicker.|
|Apr-17-13|| ||BOSTER: <paulalbert> <Nxf7 seemed so natural. I just went with it without even considering anything else>.
<FSR> <18.Nxf7 is too obvious to get an exclam>.
<goodevans> <the level of analysis needed to determine which is preferable between 18.Nxf7 and 18.Nxg6>.|
According to Nimzo to destroy the pawn chain f7-e6-d5 we have to take or remove the pawn f7( the base of the chain).
So, we can play 18.Nxf7 and pawn f7 will disappeared , or we can play 18.Nxg6 and if fxg6 pawn f7 will change its pos.
Let's see which move is more forced.
When we play 18.Nxf7 black can play Kxf7.
And now white has to return the sacr. piece 19.Ng5+ Kg8 20.Qxe6+ Kg7 21.Qxd5 . Nf7 is not too good because of Nc5! White can win couple pawns ,but this is not enough to win. The line with 18.Nxg6 fxg6 is more attractive because the knight f5 is hanging in the air after g6 pawn will disappeared.
19.Qxe6+ Qe7 20. Qxg6+ Kd8 21.Qxf5 if 28.Nxg6 Rg8 19.Bxf5
|Apr-17-13|| ||thegoodanarchist: I once checkmated an opponent OTB in a tournament. He seemed upset after. Is it considered embarrassing, or noble?|
|Apr-17-13|| ||Phony Benoni: <thegoodanarchist> I never checkmated an opponent who was in a perfectly good mood.|
|Apr-17-13|| ||dufferps: Has anyone commented on 19. ... Bf7 instead of 19. ... Nf7. White would still gain material and win, but not so abruptly.|
|Apr-20-13|| ||thegoodanarchist: <Phony Benoni: <thegoodanarchist> I never checkmated an opponent who was in a perfectly good mood.>|
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