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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 9 OF 9 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Jul-19-10 | | Augalv: <what happened to him?> He quit chess. |
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| Aug-14-11 | | wordfunph: his last tour was in 2007, hope he makes a comeback. |
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| Dec-17-20 | | thegoldenband: <Billy Vaughan: The only way to beat Needleman is with <Gemini Man>'s powers!> Underrated joke, that! |
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Oct-21-23
 | | FSR: On this page there was much discussion of an incident in 2005. I found it hard to follow. In brief, the top seven finishers at the American Continental Championship (2005) would qualify for the 2005 World Cup. Bruzon finished first. Seven other players tied for second, half a point behind. They were Gata Kamsky, Julio Granda, Alexander Onischuk, Giovanni Vescovi, Ruben Felgaer, Gilberto Milos, and Gaston Needleman. All were GMs rated over 2600, except Needleman, a 15-year-old boy rated just 2242, who had just had the tournament of his life. Since only six of the seven could qualify, there was a rapid playoff to determine which would be odd man out. As explained at https://en.chessbase.com/post/-chec... the GMs mostly played quick draws among themselves and fought hard only against poor Needleman. He finished last in the playoff with a win, a draw, and four losses, thus failing to qualify for the World Cup. Apart from Needleman's games, there was only one decisive game in the playoff. The playoff result generated a lot of outrage at how the GMs had seemingly ganged up on young Needleman. However, FIDE President Kirsan Ilzhuminov extended a wild card invitation to the World Cup to Needleman. He was eliminated in the first round, losing 2-0 to No. 4 seed Alexander Grischuk. |
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| Oct-21-23 | | Caissanist: He does play occasionally. All his tournaments are in the province of Mendoza, an isolated area on the Chilean border. I guess if you live there it's not so easy to get a game, especially at his level. |
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| Oct-21-23 | | stone free or die: Please not the following chessbase pre-script intro to the main story(*) - the same story given in <FSR>'s, wiki's, and the bio above: <Before the somewhat dramatized account that follows, a quick update. In a brief conversation with young Gastón he said he didn't believe there was any conspiracy against him. We also found out from him that the progression of the tiebreak tournament makes any such collusion very unlikely. Needleman had the bye in the first round and beat Milos in the second round while Felgaer lost to Granda. It would have been crazy to agree to short draws while behind. Gastón added that Kamsky and Granda played a full game at the start. We thank him for his honesty and congratulate him on his tremendous result.> https://en.chessbase.com/post/-chec... (*) The source of the "main" story - as given by <CB> is an article <La Nación> by Iarlos A. Ilardo. * * * * *
Given the counter-story and disavowal by Needleman himself, I would suggest editing the <CG> bio above. What do other biographers think?
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Oct-21-23
| | FSR: <stone free or die> I changed the text to make it more equivocal, and to add Needleman's denial that there was a conspiracy. Is it OK now? |
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| Oct-21-23 | | stone free or die: Yes better, certainly. But I would let the factual statement stand alone, introducing the "controversy" subsequent, maybe like this: <He lost the rapid playoff to determine which six of those seven would qualify for the World Cup (2005). By some accounts this was controversal, the grandmasters mostly played quick draws against each other, while fighting hard against Needleman, who finished last in the playoff.> . |
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Oct-21-23
| | FSR: <stone free or die> "By some accounts this was controversial" is too equivocal. The fact that there is disagreement, with some people saying the GMs improperly ganged up on Needleman, and others (including Needleman) saying they didn't, is enough to make the subject controversial. There definitely is (or was) a controversy, not just "by some accounts." |
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| Oct-21-23 | | stone free or die: OK, let me make this challenge in reply.
So far, I know the controversy made it into print due to one columnist's article, but where else? I'm thinking of reputable chess magazines or newspaper columns. (I always want refs for this sort of stuff - partially to avoid putting my own judgments into the formal narrative). "By some accounts" isn't really equivocal for me given that Needleman decidedly seemed to think it didn't happen as described, and pointed out inconsistencies due to actual play to the conspiracy model. I won't belabor the point much more, but I would like to see other examples of written contemporaneous commentary. |
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Oct-21-23
| | FSR: <stone free or die> There are seven pages of heated debate on Gaston Needleman. Surely people elsewhere must have also had strong opinions. ChessBase's articles are widely read, not only by people on this site. |
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| Oct-21-23 | | stone free or die: OK, I would defer to your editorial judgment on this matter of degree having had my say. Cheers and thanks for the updating. |
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| Oct-21-23 | | stone free or die: Here's a contemporaneous report at TWIC, partially addressing <CB>'s 2nd hand report: <3) American Continental Championship
The American Continental Championship took place in Buenos Aires 5th-16th August, 2005. Lazaro Bruzon took clear first place with 8.5/11 leaving 7 players to fight out 6 places for the next stages of the FIDE World Championship. The person to miss out was young Gaston Needleman who scored a result of a lifetime in getting a GM norm in regular time. In the playoff he found himself to be the whipping boy as the other players started agreeing short draws against each other and simply playing for a win against him. This was discussed in a highly critical manner in a ChessBase story but the facts seem to suggest players were simply maximising their chances from the half way point. However some kind of modified knockout format would have cut this problem out which was still pretty unedifying if entirely understandable. More discussion at: Chessninja> https://theweekinchess.com/html/twi... |
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| Oct-21-23 | | stone free or die: <GM Gata Kamsky
I was quite surprised at the allegations brought up by that article so I'll give you a brief outline of what happened. ...> * * * * *
<GM Alex Onischuk
...
Some of you in your comments say something like "Felgaer fought, why didn't other GMs fight?" Well, everything was different from what the local journalist wrote.> * * * * *
<<Gastón Needleman> [in full]With regard to the tiebreak games I must say that I do not believe that the behaviour of the players was directed against me personally. It seems logical that if all the grandmasters were rated over 2600 and one in fact was 2700 they would only risk something against the weakest player with a 2200 rating points. Also not all the games were quick draws. For instance Granda-Kamsky was a fighting game, in the second round Granda won against Felgaer, etc. I would like to make it clear that I am not bitter or sad that I was eliminated in this qualification for the World Cup tournament, and that I enjoyed my six games in the Continental Championship tremendously. I am happy to have made my first IM and GM norms, and mainly to have been able to play against so many grandmasters. And I am thankful for the warm feelings brought to me by so many people. I thank ChessBase for your support in this matter and leave it to my father to explain the results of the tiebreak to you.> * * * * *
<<Alejandro Needleman>In my role as Gastón's father and a witness to the tiebreak games I would like to describe the situation as I experienced it. Here first are the round-by-round results: [Round by round result table omitted]
I would like to mention that in his game against Granda Gastón avoided a draw by repetition and played a risky continuation, and that in his game against Vescovi he refused a draw that was offered to him by his opponent before the game began. ...> * * * * *
It also includes some additional supportive material from Ilardo. https://en.chessbase.com/post/gastn... |
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Oct-22-23
| | FSR: <stone free or die> Thanks. The second ChessBase article convinces me that the alleged conspiracy was mostly a product of one journalist's and possibly some spectators' misperceptions/imaginations. Needleman and his father don't claim a conspiracy, and the other players involved have provided plausible explanations. I have accordingly rewritten the bio to remove the conspiracy stuff. |
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| Oct-22-23 | | stone free or die: I think this is an illustrative example in a couple of regards, perhaps I'll comment on it over in the Bistro at some point. The bio is fine now adhering nicely to the facts. But the context of his invite is now missing since dust-up did somehow contribute to it. That's fine, in a sense, as we've more than covered it in the comments. |
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Oct-22-23
| | FSR: New picture? That's a shock! I didn't think we did new pictures anymore. |
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Oct-22-23
 | | OhioChessFan: I think you went a little too far in removing all vestiges of the controversy. Perhaps a one line reference to the Chessbase article with a link while citing both Needlemans denial of a conspiracy would be enough to satisfy the historical record. |
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Oct-22-23
| | OhioChessFan: Agreed with <stone> that there's no question the Chessbase article precipitated the invite. It happened, and why it happened, right or wrong, should be on the historical record. |
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Oct-22-23
| | FSR: Rewritten yet again . . . |
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| Oct-22-23 | | nok: <It happened, and why it happened, right or wrong, should be on the historical record.> The Needleman and the Damage Done |
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Oct-23-23
| | OhioChessFan: <nok> you need to submit that pun to one of the games in the aforementioned tournament. |
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Oct-23-23
| | OhioChessFan: Thanks <FSR>. |
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Oct-23-23
| | FSR: <OCF> You're welcome. |
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Oct-23-23
| | FSR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30P... |
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