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Jan-12-05
 | | chessgames.com: We have the games from the Indochess Man vs. Machine match now. Some of the games have errors in them, we'll fix them up if we can figure them out. Official site: http://www.indochess.com/event_news... Chessbase has coverage here: http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail... |
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| Jan-12-05 | | northbridge: 14.5 - 1.5!? They should have asked Kasparov to teach them a few tricks :-) It's interesting that the player with best results was Halay, Taufik (ELO 2299), he drew both Junior 8 and Chessmaster, while GM Susanto Megaranto(ELO 2463) managed a single draw against Schredder 8 and GM Utut Adianto with an ELO of almost 2600 lost all his games... Also it's interesting to note that Chessmaster has become a lot stronger after the 8000 version, which was quite weak. In this tournament it managed results as good as Schredder and Junior. Still, Fritz is king. |
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| Jan-12-05 | | PinkPanther: This match was retarded. What does it prove to have such weak players playing against the premiere programs in the world? |
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| Jan-12-05 | | northbridge: Not all of the players were that weak, two of them were GMs. |
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| Jan-12-05 | | karnak64: I have this recurring nightmare:
when "Fritz10" finaly comes out, it plays 1. f3! and announces a forced mate in 73 moves against any defence. |
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| Jan-12-05 | | MoonlitKnight: Does the mate involve 2.Kf2? |
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| Jan-12-05 | | lopium: ahahaha! What a score against humans! Very funny! ahaha!! |
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| Jan-12-05 | | vonKrolock: I'm whith <PinkPanther>: Such a show adds nothing to Chess in more than one sense: imagine if a group of alpinists would agree to run against helicopters... Well, possibly whith Chess is different: the charging is inevitable - so: viva the Art of Chess and the pleasure people obtains from their cherished Game... |
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| Jan-12-05 | | northbridge: <karnak64: I have this recurring nightmare: when "Fritz10" finaly comes out, it plays 1. f3! and announces a forced mate in 73 moves against any defence.> You don't need to worry about that ... unless you plan to stay alive until Fritz 10000 comes out :-) The evolution of computer chess has reached its hardware 'limit' so to speak. The number of variations grows at an exponential rate so the strength of the CPU, from a certain point onward, has little influence on the playing strength of the program. The main thing that drives computer chess forward is the improvement of evaluation algorithms, and in stark contrast to hardware, algorithms don't double in strength every 12 months. |
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| Jan-12-05 | | maoam: So when quantum computers become reality, we're all stuffed. |
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| Jan-12-05 | | northbridge: I'm not sure about quantum computers but it is clear that with current hardware technology we will only see a slow incremental process, not nearly enough to bring about the kind of god like chess program karnak64 was referring to. |
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| Jan-12-05 | | eainca: Does anyone know what the time controls were for the games? |
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Jan-12-05
 | | offramp: All your moves in a minute! |
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| Jan-12-05 | | karnak64: <northbridge>; I do indeed plan to stay alive until Fritz 10000 comes out. God and Nature, perhaps, have a different plan ... |
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| Jan-12-05 | | roni.chessman: <It's interesting that the player with best results was Halay, Taufik (ELO 2299), he drew both Junior 8 and Chessmaster, while GM Susanto Megaranto(ELO 2463) managed a single draw against Schredder 8 and GM Utut Adianto with an ELO of almost 2600 lost all his games... > If the guy was truly a GM i'm sure he'd put up more of a fight. All i'm sure of now about seeing this, is that this GM was most likely intimidated. The GM probably had no idea what he was up against..I mean c'mon...Fritz 8! Still he might have the program at home and say "do'h" everytime it crushes him. |
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| Jan-13-05 | | dafish298: ok acouple things about this match...first off..alot of higher players think it was a joke and i have to agree..and of course the 'chips' clobbered the humans lol, because the humans that were playing sucked. im not saying im better and i realize they are titled players but they do not stand a chance against the top computers in the world..can someone explain to me why these players did this event? in my opinion you would have to be either a computer expert player like roman or bron or be a top 50 player to be able to contend with computers at this level. |
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Jan-13-05
 | | lostemperor: May I remind for those who like to forget, especially those who are most critical, that these Indonesian players with an average of 2421 did not do worse than topgrandmasters with an avarage of 2681! http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.... If I'm not mistaken I see Fritz scoring 3.5/4 against Topalov, Ponomariov and Karjakin what is excactly the same as the "weak" Indochess bunch. Only Deep Junior has learned from then and did better now. In fact, if I'm correct, the "weaklings" did even better! In comparison to the ratings of the topgrandmaster they should have only scored two draws out of 16. So that is an improvement of 50%. What it proves? That stronger players do not necessary play better against topcomputers. |
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Jan-13-05
| | lostemperor: To explain my calculation (so you won't think I make this all up): the average of the topGM (in which two of the world's top 10 or 11) is 2681. Which is 260 points higher than the Indonesian players. I know that 200 elo rating difference means about 75% scoring chance. So 260 points is about 80% expectation (or 8-2). Rating experts correct me if I'm wrong. . The topGM play 12 rounds and got an awful 3.5 points. If they had play 16 rounds their score would be 4,66 in the line of the previous results. The rating of the Indonesian players would indicate a 25% score of the topGM. 25% of 4.66 is about 1.18 points. But the topGM played against slightly deeper versions of computers. It is a pity that Utut Adianto has scored very disappointingly. Perhaps the disaster in other parts of the country has affected the mind of the strongest player in the team. |
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| Jan-13-05 | | Wood Mover: Isn't it amusing how some people feel threatened by the prospect of the best computer programs consistently defeating the best human players. Well, IMHO it is inevitable, and just a matter of time. I don't really have a problem with it myself. Sooner or later raw processing power and advances in algorithms has to overtake the human mind in the chess arena. What will be fascinating is the impact this will have on the chess world. :> |
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| Jan-14-05 | | roni.chessman: <Sooner or later raw processing power and advances in algorithms has to overtake the human mind in the chess arena.> Even if that's a possibility,computers still do not have the intuition to learn for themselves. SuperGMs still know their lines and could easily draw their games. Unless chess turns into something like Fischerandom, these computers, with unimaginable playing strength will only end up drawing the superGMs over and over and over (that's when the computers are immune to mistakes) |
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| Jan-14-05 | | csmath: SuperGMs could compete with computers until recently. Ponomariov and Topalov lost to computers just last year and every year more they will be even bigger difference.
The only way they can beat computers is applying anti-computer chess and this is actually how Kasparov survived against Fritz in his recent match.
If the game goes into open confrontation superGM is lost against superC.
The best chance for superGM are asimmetric openings like French, like Sicilian etc but to beat computer he has to be extremely precise. There are no blunders, once your position is real bad you can resign, computer does not miss the forced combinations. |
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Jan-14-05
| | lostemperor: I still think the best humans are capable of beating, so are about as strong as the best computers. Topalov sort of showed he was almost capable tieing the machines. But I must admit these results of the recent man vs machine matches has really baffled me. I will buy Fritz, the computer I played in its developing stages 20 years ago, and beat that thing. Or at least try to make a draw. I will kick the damn machine and I mean literally :). |
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| Jan-14-05 | | nikolaas: <lostemperor> Before you buy Fritz, read this first http://www.chessninja.com/cgi-bin/u... |
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Jan-14-05
| | lostemperor: <nikolaas> LOL. But let's see who will have the last laugh. When I got one chance some time, I'll get four queens and make Fritz suffer not mating or stalemating it, till it begs for mercy;) |
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| Jan-14-05 | | csmath: In his match with Fritz recently (4 games) Kasparov sort of admited that he is not superior any more. In the past he played open confrontation and the results were mixed (lost to Deep Blue) but this time he adopted anti-computer strategy after he was on the verge of another loss to machine. That is how he won the one game in that match. It is not a game to be proud of, it was a typical anti-computer chess game. Plus the superGMs are allowed to draw with a machine by the operator's decision when machine would not draw and not once machine wins a "draw" ending against GMs because machine drills it up to the ends of the earth and people lose concentration. Also these matches are all short, 4-6 games. Need to know that machine can play 10,000 games with equal strength and human cannot. Besides there is a better program than Fritz out there, it is called Shredder. |
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