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Nov-16-14 | | Ke2: <Mjphamlore> <keypusher> That Lasker - Tarrasch match was also notable for being one of the first and greatest trash talking chess matches of all time. <An attempted reconciliation before the match came to nothing, when Tarrasch refused to shake hands, made a stiff little bow, and said: "To you, Herr Lasker, I have only three words to say: Check and mate!"> |
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Nov-16-14 | | abisai: It is very tragic that Anand missed the golden opportunity. But he should not lose heart. Try to make up things and fight back. |
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Nov-16-14 | | Jambow: <Ke2: <1971> Are you a professional player? No one knows how to stop carlsen right now, and you think it's as simple as going for active positions?> There are no positions that Carlsen can't win from yet there certainly are other positions where he almost certainly will win from. Huge difference so go for the positions that give you the maximum odds if never an advantage per say. He is still the favorite if you have 30% odds, but why give yourself 5% odds. Carlsen is probably the best player in the world but heading towards drawish positions was a failed endeavor from the outset. |
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Nov-16-14 | | Pawn Dillinger: <rcs784: What are some other examples of a mutual blunder in a World Championship match? Offhand, I can only think of this game: Kasparov vs Short, 1993, where both sides missed 46...Rc5! drawing. Other examples?> Thank you. I had the same question but have zero time to research. |
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Nov-16-14 | | kardopov: Hi sally simpson. What I meant is little did Carlsen realized it was a mistake before making the actual move. And yes, I made the assumption that they are both tired even though there was only 5 games completed and the 6th being played at the moment. The double blunder is a rarity at the top level and what reason I can assume except that they were tired and their visions are therefore blurred :) |
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Nov-16-14
 | | scormus: <Sally .... a4??> nice discussion and commentary on body language. A very interesting and instructive game. I feel it's a shame Vishy missed that chance, and not such a difficult one to have found. I dont know if he planned a sequence with .... a4, possibly he saw it as the best strategy to restrict W on the Qside. FWIW my engine does not favour it Before Kd2?? it judges W was clearly ahead and maybe Vishy considered a somewhat "special" move was necessary.. I was busy yesterday so didn't have a chance to follow it then, or see any pictures. I imagine unless Magnus was a practised poker-player it would have been well-nigh impossible to conceal his consternation at seeing his mistake and the logical outcome. So it remains a bit puzzling IMO. But Vishy must take some positives from it all. He has taken Magnus out of his comfort zone which he never managed last time. If he can put this setback behind him he is still very much in the fight. |
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Nov-16-14 | | tranquilsimplicity: <Scormus> Indeed. Indeed.# |
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Nov-16-14 | | DaveK: I'm sorry but I am new & I don't see how this game was supposed to play out or why Anand resigned. I followed the Hercules machine moves & didn't see a mate. Can anyone help me or point me to some answers? |
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Nov-16-14 | | LIONHEART18: what happens if 26 Nxe5 and RH5XNe5....what would be the continuation |
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Nov-16-14
 | | Richard Taylor: I think 10...Nd7 was inferior to 10...Ne4.
Later Black should have played 11. .... f5 instead of 11. ... Bxc3 which gives up the B pair, but also the more pieces Black has the better he can create counter play. The weakness of the doubled pawns was almost irrelevant to the game as it was countered by Carlsen's 2 Bishops. [11...f5 12. h4 Kc7 13. Rh3 b6 14. Be2 Be7! 15. 0-0-0 Be7=) Even earlier I don't think 7. ... Nc6 is better than Qc7. And then while dxc6 isn't better it keeps the Q on. The whole strategy of the Anand team in this case was wrong it seems. It was perhaps not a lost game when he played Nf8 but as many say, very hard to play (against any strong player). |
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Nov-16-14 | | starry2013: Tired? There's loads of rest days and the games haven't been marathon length. Carlsen was nervous at the start of last year's match, so I think he was uncomfortable at the very start then. It seems to me that Vishwanathan is still making blunders like last year. |
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Nov-16-14
 | | keypusher: <solskytz>
<Your opponent has the 2B's and is pressuring you on one side of the board - now you stretch your own defenses and create a weakness, a liability, on the other side of the board.> Well, of course, that's not what Anand thought he was doing! He thought he was creating counterplay. I mean, isn't defending passively supposed to be a bad idea in general, but especially bad against Carlsen? Maybe Anand's problem was that he played the man rather than the board. :-) Also, if <erniecohen> is right about the the exchange sacrifice on move 32, where Black gets his rook to a1 and then hunts down Carlsen's dark-square bishop, maybe ...a4, ...a3 wasn't so bad. |
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Nov-16-14
 | | keypusher: So, these seem to be the main conundrums for the game: Does White have anything after 10....Ne4? Answer seems to be yes, a little. What if, instead of playing 14....h6, Black just lets Carlsen's pawn advance, playing ...g6 when it does? Can W exploit his advantage? What if, instead of advancing the a-pawn, Black does nothing? One idea was to just post the B on a6 and the K on c7. What can W do? What about the exchange sacrifice on move 32? The following was posted by <erniecohen>. <Does 32...Ka7 draw for Black? For example, 32...Ka7 33. Bxa8 Kxa8 34. Bxa3 Rd1 35. Rxh6 Ra1 36. Rg5 Rxa2+ 37. Ke1 Ra1+ 38. Kf2 Rxa3 39. Rh7 Be8 40. Rxg6 fxg6 41. Rh8 Rxc3 42. Rxe8+ Kb7 43. Re7+ Kc6 44. Rxe6+ Kc7 45. Rxg6 Rxc4 46. Ke3 b5 47. Rg7+ Kc6 > It's an amazing idea, taking advantage of the fact that dark-square bishop doesn't have a lot of squares on the queenside. (Incidentally, ernie, if you use the figurine algebraic feature when you post moves on this site, if someone copies and re-posts your work, the figurines disappear. You can better propagate your ideas by just using K, Q, R, B, N!) I guess there is also the question whether Carlsen is really lost after 26....Nxe5. The answer seems to be, probably not. |
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Nov-16-14 | | Ulhumbrus: No one can avoid bad luck. What Anand can do however is to extract whatever useful lessons he can from any loss. Anand may have gained at least one valuable thing from game 6: Carlsen has proven that he can make blunders. One lesson which Anand may have learnt from this game is that when on the defensive Anand is advised to be on the lookout for blunders as Carlsen probably would be if in his place. Admittedly Anand may have acquired this gain at a painful price. |
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Nov-16-14 | | Llawdogg: I wonder if Carlsen can win again next game with white. |
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Nov-16-14 | | HowDoesTheHorsieMove: <I'm sorry but I am new & I don't see how this game was supposed to play out or why Anand resigned. I followed the Hercules machine moves & didn't see a mate.> White has a lot of extra pawns.
Anand was confident Carlsen had a winning advantage. My guess is that was because of the pawns. |
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Nov-16-14
 | | kingscrusher: Here is my analysis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzs... |
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Nov-16-14
 | | chancho: User: king
User: crusher User: you
User: are
User: the
User: man
User: supremo User: analyst |
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Nov-16-14 | | Overgod: On Carlsen's approach to chess Part I:
I'd like to say one thing that I'm reminded of now -- especially considering the recent exchange of blunders occurring even at this level between Carlsen and Anand. I recall Carlsen stating at least a couple of times (I don't care to fetch the exact quote), that he just plays chess without really thinking about winning or drawing, but rather, demanding from the opponent that he/she make at least 40 or 50 good moves on the board. Now, this had me thinking about how this simple, almost trivial 'philosophy' could be a huge psychological edge that Carlsen has over his contemporaries: he doesn't really collapse in games (even in bad positions), because he doesn't care so much about the outcome as he does about the mindset of "okay, my position is bad, let's see if you can continue making 10 or 15 more good moves -- and if you can do this, I will resign..." This explains why he has an almost magical ability to draw (probably) lost games (and even win some of them -- a recent Nakamura - Carlsen game comes to mind!) and win (probably) drawn games. It's not that Carlsen is sitting there thinking "I have to draw/win at all costs, respectively," but more like "please keep playing good moves until our naked kings are on the board. If you fail to do this, I will capitalize on your failure." Now of course this doesn't always happen. Sometimes there's the inevitable perpetual check. Sometimes Magnus sees no better move than to force a draw or resign (which is almost always hard fought, keep in mind). But the general rule of thumb is: "prove to me that you can make 40 or 50 good moves. Chances are you can't, which is why I am going to crush you, both over the board and psychologically." This also explains why Carlsen prefers off-beat lines than overly analyzed ones -- it forces the opponent out of his/her preparation and into the "prove to me you can make your *OWN* good moves" arena. Now, is this just a wild guess, or is there some data to back this up? Well, who can forget how Carlsen continued playing Aronian (one of the strongest players ever) in a game where Aronian offered a draw (in a drawish looking position) despite the fact that merely accepting the draw would have guaranteed Carlsen's first place finish at the Sinquefield Cup 2013? Please also remember that Aronian, who was black, actually had an advantage in the game prior to the draw offer. Yes, he did let the advantage slip, but he was by no means losing. So, Carlsen had to find precise moves to survive. I put it to you that anybody else on the planet, be it Kramnik, Kasparov, Anand, Caruana, whoever, would have breathed a sigh of relief and accepted the winner's check and looked back on another lovely super tournament victory with pride. Also remember (I am not completely sure about this), but I think if Aronian had actually won the game, then Carlsen would not have finished sole first, but tied it with Aronian and possibly second on tiebreaks! So, in other words, Carlsen was not playing on without considerable risk. |
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Nov-16-14 | | tranquilsimplicity: <kingscrusher> Excellent analysis! Indeed 26...a4?? was/is a blunder and ..Nxe5 increased Black chances of winning (with software and commentators agreeing). Because I now know your name, I will check your photograph on the internet and see if I may have probably seen you at Golders Green or Hastings.# |
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Nov-16-14 | | tranquilsimplicity: <Overgod> I like your philosophical analysis on Carlsen's style and attitude of play. It seems to make perfect sense and tallies with what I have observed.# |
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Nov-16-14 | | Edeltalent: <Pawn Dillinger: <rcs784: What are some other examples of a mutual blunder in a World Championship match? Offhand, I can only think of this game: Kasparov vs Short, 1993, where both sides missed 46...Rc5! drawing. Other examples?> Thank you. I had the same question but have zero time to research.> 31...Bxf8?? 32.Qg6+?? from Topalov vs Kramnik, 2006 might be the most dramatic example. |
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Nov-16-14 | | jphamlore: As for pushing the a-pawn, obviously it was a totally different situation, but it had not worked out badly for Anand in a relatively recent game of his: D Fridman vs Anand, 2013 |
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Nov-16-14 | | erniecohen: <tranquilsimplicity> In this context, when I talk about probability of the position after ♔e2 being a draw, I'm not talking about probability of a human converting it to a draw. What I mean is that it is likely that the position is a draw with perfect play from both sides. Of course Ke2 likely changes the expected human outcome by at least half a point, and so is a clear blunder in human terms. I'm actually getting more pessimistic about White holding this position, even if he exchanges LSBs and eliminates all K-side pawns. Endgame experts are invited to comment. |
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Nov-16-14 | | Edeltalent: <solskytz: It turns out from game 6 (in both matches!) that Anand just doesn't like these positions, and he will do everything to exacerbate his own situation - sacrifice pawns needlessly, such as last year), or play unnecessary weakening moves such as ...h6, ...a4 and ...a3 this year. There was probably nothing wrong with sitting in one place, moving the B or the K back and forth and waiting - Anand just doesn't like that. So - establish even a slight pressuring position, then sit and wait for Anand to self-destruct.> <solskytz: This kibitzer saw ...a3 coming before Anand played it. He also predicted the exact fashion in which Carlsen later exploited that error, and in detail.There was nothing seriously wrong with Anand's position (even discounting the fact that he didn't find ...Nxe5 when it counted) before he went ...a4. This kibitzer would never in a million years have played this move in this kind of position, engines or not. However - you saw me write about Anand's ...a3 and its consequences BEFORE Anand played that yesterday. How can you explain such a move from Anand? Why not simply "stand in one place" and wait?> A couple of comments from the live commentary concerning these points: Kramnik (position at move 24): <I really doubt you can keep a draw by just staying, making nothing.> (Surely you can't accuse Kramnik of being a player that generally refrains from "standing in one place" and waiting.) Svidler: <That was the only positive [about missing Nxe5], that he got the time to push the pawn to a3. Normally of course you never allow a3 in this position.> |
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