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| Dec-06-02 | | drukenknight: Opening Blunders Made Easy; by DK. Some more variations on the Falkbeer. Tartakover recommended 3 Qf3 but it seems too tame for this wild opening. Here's one with a different queen move: 1 e4 e5 2 f4 d5 3 Qh5 Nc6 4 Bb5 Qd6 5 fxe4 Qe6 6 Nf3 g6 7 Qh4 Bd7 8 Ng5 Qxe5 9 00 000? okay that was stupid, but there were lots of ways to keep it going like Bc5+ |
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| Dec-06-02 | | Kulla Tierchen: What do you think of 3. ed for white? |
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| Dec-06-02 | | drukenknight: Funny you should mention that, its now considered main line, at least it was according to my 1957 MCO. I wonder when that happened? It seems that Keres worked out that line. In the old days, Morphy and them would play 3 Nf3 and not worry about it. Tartakover later suggested 3 Qf3. Probably there are many ways to play it. The whole idea behind the Keres move is to open the e file and use that. Often to pin the N but there are other tricks too. But like most lines, they dont tell you everything so that if you ever sit down to play them, and think you know everything they have more tricks to play on you. This Keres line is a classic example. Okay let's play it through a little: 1 e4 e5 2 f4 d5 3 exd5 e4 4 d3 (Kere's suggestion is this move) Nf6 5 dxe4 Nxe4 6 Nf3 Now we come to move 6 lots of playable moves here, lets go w/ 6 ...Bc4 (is ....Bb5+ playable, Kulla?) 7 Qe2 and now what do they give: 7...Bf5 played by Bronstein/Tal among others. Okay what is wrong w/ 7...00?
"Never never play this" sez Tartakover. So does Neil McDonald 50 years later. both of them give the following line: 7..00? 8 Qxe4 Re8 9 Ne5 (this is clever) f6 Whatever, this line goes on and black loses. But wait a minute! black sacks material and what does he gain? Time more or less and position a R on the e file. see the whole pt of Keres move is to allow black to waste a move so he can regain position along the e file. Black has to think in terms of time. 9...f6 just weakens his K side defense in order to do what: gain back the material? He needs to think about regaining time so he can ATTACK not regain MATERIAL. Even if regains the N, he weakens the K side. He has to use a piece that can gain him time, well let's see, originally Keres allowed blacks N to come forward, then he uses his own N to block the check, who's been doing all the tempo gaining, the knights? So then use the other N: 9...Nd2 10 Bd3 (there are a lot of lines that use this Battery) 10...Nf3 11 Qe2 Bg4 YOu see how these guys play tricks on you? YOu sit down to play KEres as white, you have read his book. He plays into your line, he plays the bad move ...00. So now you have him, you think, and instead of 9...f3 he springs the N on you. Ha! Ha! Ha! Very clever Keres. |
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| Dec-07-02 | | Kulla Tierchen: I once had a copy of the MCO by Evans, I think it was from 1965. 1 e4 e5 2 f4 d5 3 exd5 e4 4 d3 Nf6 5 dxe4 Nxe4 6 Nf3--I think this is a very strong move for white and necessary. I would expect 6...Bc5 then 7. Qe2 Bf5 8. Nc3 as in Bronstein-Tal, 1968 White should welcome 7...Bf2+ 8. Kd1 Qxd5+ 9. Nfd2 |
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| Dec-07-02 | | drukenknight: Kulla spots my typo 6...Bc5 yes. Sorry so the line is: 6..Bc5 7 Qe2 00 8 Qxe4 Re8 9 Ne5 Nd2 |
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| Feb-20-04 | | drukenknight: Another insane falkbeer. This is that wandering queen line that was refuted last year, but I try it again, you're gonna love this.... 1 e4 e5 2 f4 d5 3 Qh5 Nc6 4 Qxe5+ Be7 5 exd5 (a new move) Nd7 6 Bb5 c6 (this part here is really messed up) 7 dxc6 Nxe5 8 cxb7+ Bd7 9 bxa8=Q Qxa8 10 fxe5 Qxg2 11 exf6 Qxh1 12 Bxd7 Kxd7....? |
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| Feb-20-04 | | ughaibu: That's 3....Nf6. |
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| Feb-20-04 | | drukenknight: yeah, ..Nf6 what happened to that discussion we had earlier? does the manager just delete stuff? |
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| Feb-20-04 | | ughaibu: I prefer 10....Bb5 then if 11.f6 Qg2 threatens mate as well as the rook. |
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| Feb-20-04 | | ughaibu: Could've been on a different thread, maybe Cyphelium can remember. |
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| Feb-20-04 | | Cyphelium: <ughaibu> I remember the discussion we had, and I also think it should be here. I browsed through the Opening explorer, but couldn't find it anywhere else. So I guess it has been moved or removed by Chessgames.com. <drukenknight> This time we don't have to refute your idea, since you've already done so yourself! =)
BTW, at move 11, if I were black I would play 11.- Bxb5, since white's rook won't go anywhere. Indeed, white will probably lose the knight on g1 as well. |
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| Feb-20-04 | | drukenknight: somebody had come up with ...Nf6 and ...Be7 which turned out to be a real problem for white in that line originally. Still is in fact.. |
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| Feb-20-04 | | ughaibu: Drukenknight: If you haven't already done so you can refresh yourself on the previous discussion here: King's Gambit Declined (C30) |
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| May-22-04 | | paultopia: ow. I hate the falkbeer. I'm just about ready to hang up my swashbuckler spurs. Does anyone have any wisdom on good plans for white facing the falkbeer? I just played this horrible game where I lost the initiative and got tactically stomped around the board, ruined pawn structure, pinned pieces left and right, and resigned facing unstoppable queen-rook fork losing the exchange as prelude to total invasion of my back rank. Complete collapse. And I really can't identify a truly bad move in there, I just lost too many tempi trying to defend all those badly placed pawns. (Ok, 15. d4 was a blunder... allowing that passed pawn to be created to force my king on the 7th rank so I could stop it with a rook... but still, I was already dead.) 1. e4 e5 2. f4 d5 3. exd5 exf4 4. Nf3 Nf6 5. c4 Bg4 6. d3 Bb4+ 7. Nc3 Bxc3+
8. bxc3 O-O 9. Bxf4 Re8+ 10. Be2 Bxf3 11. gxf3 Nbd7 12. Qc2 g6 13. O-O-O a5
14. a4 Nc5 15. d4 Nxa4 16. Bd3 Nb6 17. h4 Nh5 18. Bg5 f6 19. Bh6 Kf7 20.
Rhg1 Rg8 21. f4 f5 22. Be2 Nf6 23. Bg5 a4 24. h5 a3 25. hxg6+ hxg6 26. Kd2
Rh8 27. Ra1 Rh2 28. Rh1 Qh8 29. Qd1 Ne4+
0-1
Like... help? plleeeaaasseeee? :-) |
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| May-22-04 | | misguidedaggression: I'm not claiming to be an expert on this line (or even a very good chess player for that matter) but 5.c4 just looks wrong to me. And after 6.d3 you leave yourself weak on the dark squares(6...Bb4+). You are playing a kings gambit, so I don't know why holding on to an extra pawn in the opening is so important to you. 5.Bb5+ looks like the more natural move. And you need to get in an early d4 for better control of the center. Of course, that's just my stile of play, I 'd rather be down material with a good attack than be up and have to defend passively. |
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| May-22-04 | | BiLL RobeRTiE: <Paultopia> That line isn't really the Falkbeer, it transposed into the King's Gambit Accepted, Abbazia Defense (C36). How about after 1 e4 e5 2 f4 exf4 3 Nf3 d5 4 exd5 Nf6 (the usual move order) instead of trying to hold the pawn with the weakening and otherwise undesirable move 5 c4?! you play a developing move like 5 Nc3 or 5 Bc4? ;) |
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| May-23-04 | | paultopia: Hmm misguidedaggression, bill robertie... ... you mean play like a proper king's gambit player? :-) Hmm... Obviously I just need to be less of a wuss about missing the e pawn. To my mind the absence of the e pawn, plus the blockage of the a2-g8 diagonal kills most of my usual attacking plans. Which, I guess, means I need to get out of a rut. Thanks guys :-) |
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| Sep-13-04 | | Giancarlo: This opening could transpose into the Vienna game, which is intresting. The King's gambit is very similar in comparision to the Vienna. This opening is an agressive one on black's part, and intresting enough, black wins over 40% of the time! |
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Jun-20-05
 | | BishopBerkeley: In his analysis of J Schulten vs Morphy, 1857 , Garry Kasparov refers to "the Falkbeer Counter-Gambit, the evaluation of which remains not altogether clear even to this day..." (from from "My Great Predecessors", vol. 1, [ISBN: 1857443306, Everyman Chess, 2003], p. 35, by Garry Kasparov .) (: ♗ Bishop Berkeley ♗ :) |
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| Jul-28-05 | | Knight13: Try 3. Qh5 :). |
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| Aug-01-05 | | gambitfan: 1. e4 e5 2. f4 d5 3. exd5 c6 4. Nc3 exf4 5. Nf3 Falkbeer = Abazzia !! |
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| Jan-27-06 | | refutor: what's the refutation to 1.e4 e5 2.f4 d5 3.Nf3 Bg4? the mainline has been 3. ...exf4 (transposing to 2. ..exf4 3.Nf3 d5) or 3. ...dxe4 4.Nxe5 etc. any thoughts? |
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| Feb-27-07 | | SirBruce: This has always been on of my favorite names for an opening: Falkbeer is such a powerful Germanic name, and what's better than a Gamit than a Counter-Gambit? When I first started playing chess seriously a decade ago, the Falkbeer Counter-Gambit was one of the first openings I was instinctively drawn to. These days I prefer the Ruy Lopez, but I wonder if there isn't a good line in the Falkbeer to learn... |
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| Feb-28-07 | | Colonel Mortimer: <When I first started playing chess seriously a decade ago, the Falkbeer Counter-Gambit was one of the first openings I was instinctively drawn to. These days I prefer the Ruy Lopez> Except that the Falkbeer is initiated by Black in the Kings gambit and the Ruy is selected by White if the circumstances allow - so I'm not sure your post makes much sense in this light... |
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| Feb-28-07 | | SirBruce: <Except that the Falkbeer is initiated by Black in the Kings gambit and the Ruy is selected by White if the circumstances allow - so I'm not sure your post makes much sense in this light...> Well, what I mean is, these days as black I wouldn't play 2... d5 and as whire I wouldn't play 2. f4, opting for something more Ruy-like in either case if I can get it. But as a beginner, you learn about control of the center, and you learn about 1. e4 e5 as being very strong, so I think 2. f4 d5 for both sides is a very natural attempt to control the center right away, before you start adding complexity to the situation with knights, bishops, and so on. |
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