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Jun-27-05
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| ckr: Hard to say Sergeant is wrong, but the general consensus does not agree wth his assessment. This is game 116 of Shibut and 047 of Maroczy
Maroczy groups all the NY Blindfold games together, this game does not appear in the grouping. Lawson in reporting of the NY games Morphy played blindfolded states the following: 2 games with Paulsen
1 game with Lichtenhein
THE FOLLOWING IN BRIEF
Lawson also states:
After the tournament Paul played most at odds, a notable exception was Schulten who had played with St. Amant and Labourdonnais and the Chess Monthly reported about Schulten: "a far spread reputation as a chess player. A multitude of his games, contested on equal terms with the leading players of Europe, have been published in the Chess Periodicals over the last 15 years." So intros done, Schulten arrived in NY November 29 and they played 24 games into December Morphy winning 23 and losing 1. Lawson does NOT state that it was a match, as the results would surely indicate that Schulten was so far outclassed one has to wonder why odds were not given later. In Fiske's book the chapter "Chess without a board" there is no mention of a Schulten blindfold game. So that leaves Sergeant, who claims this game which morphy won was played blindfolded and that the only game that Morphy lost to Schulten was not a blindfold game.
Did Sergeant also claim it was a match?
Whether a match or not is there any explanation for this single blindfold? (If u beat me 23 times u have to play me 1 blindfolded?) IMHO, Morphy totally bored after cleaning Schulten's clock for 20 some games turns on the TV to catch a Nascar race and just states his moves to Schulten and Schulten loses again (classify it as Blindfold??). All kidding aside, I believe Sergeant erred, when an author goes against the grain they should state why and offer their reasonings. Like when Ward took NN games and stated they were played by Worrall without any new facts led to the conclusion. Most people reading his book would not know, but others reviewing and comparing would point out "Hey what is going on here Typo's, some bias or what? Would not be the first time I have been wrong.
What Game Number is this in Sergeants Games? It can be matched to corrections in Gleanings which was printed later. |
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Jun-27-05
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| ckr: <ckr Hard to say> yea, anything in 25 words or less. |
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| Jun-27-05 |
| SBC: This is Game CLXIX in Philip W. Sergeant's "Morphy's Games of Chess" where it's listed under Section II, "Casual Games/New York, 1857", not under "Blindfold Games". Unless I'm blind myslef, Sergeant does not assert anywhere that this was a blindfold game. However, Sergeant does give the game ending at 21...Black mates in 3 (followed by the mating variations). In the "Blindfold" section, Sergeant gives only the 2 Paulsen games for the year 1857. However, in the introduction to the "Casual Games/New York, 1857" section, Sergeant mentions that Morphy's 95 level games results (+84-4=7) include the tournament games but excludes 4 blindfold games and 1 consultation game. |
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Jun-27-05
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| ckr: <SBC - No Blindfolds - how has this thread gone so far astray??> Second :-)
<SBC tournament games but excludes 4 blindfold games and 1 consultation game.> From shear recollective powers and without sight of references (blindfolded) As I recall there was 1 instance of paul playing one board on a 4 board blind simul against Paulsen 10/10/1857, then on 10/20/1857 paulsen against Morphy 2 boards both blind and then finally Lichtenhein total of four (4) I think Lawson Missed one. |
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Jun-27-05
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| Calli: Okay, I dusted off my old copy of Sargeant.
<SnoopDogg> You didn't look it up and are just plain wrong about Sargeant. Okay, should have checked it myself but didn't. <SBC> Sargeant gives all four blindfold games. Three against Paulsen. Both players were blind in all three. The fourth was against Lichtenhein. Games 89-92 LXXXIX through XCII Chessgames also has another Schulten game as blindfold. Apparently someone decided there was a two game blindfold match played, but without any basis at all. Sargeant's little bio on Schulten is odd. Says he is "An American" who played Labourdonnais etc and then retired to Berlin. He really sounds like Paulsen who lived in the US for a time and eventually moved back to the homeland. Apologies for not digging out Sargeant before. Maybe I can even find Gleanings :-> |
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| Jun-27-05 |
| SBC: <Calli>
I looked back through it. I see the problem. At least in my edition, Game LXXXIX is Paulsen, Oct. 10, 1857; Game XC is Paulsen, Oct. 10, 1857; Game XCI is Paulsen Oct. 10,<1859>. I saw the 1859 (apparently a mispint) and din't look any further to the next page where Game XCII is Lichtenheim Nov. 19, 1857. So, Sergeant gives 4 games for NYC 1857, but only correctly lists 3. What a mess. |
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Jun-27-05
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| ckr: <SBC What a mess>
Indeed, but the final assessment is Not a Blindfold (!?)He was blindfolded!?
<SnoopDogg: Yes he was, so Morphy's Games of Chess by P.W. Sergeant says SnoopDogg:> Foul! Bad Form! Unfair! what edition?
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Jun-27-05
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| Calli: <SBC> Yes, its a typo :-O. Clarity is provided in the "Blindfold Games" chapter introduction: "The earliest recorded examples .... are four games played during his visit to New York....three of these against Louis Paulsen who was without sight of board". - Sergeant (you know having not looked at this book for many years, I always thought it was SARgeant) |
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| Aug-03-05 |
| vinohradska: 9. bxc3 seems like a feeble move. |
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| Aug-12-05 |
| Robin001: I looked this game up in the book "Chess from Morphy to Botwinnik," by Imre Konig, and it says it is not a blindfold game. |
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| Jan-10-06 |
| morpstau: A Morphy game always consists of the following ... 1. superior force and development 2. A weaker opponent and a completely exposed and nude king. 3. The game ending in Morphy pronouncing mate in a few forced moves. The way in which he tears up his opponents like whimpering rag dolls is relative to a wolf and a mouse; a little appettizer! |
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Feb-08-06
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| whatthefat: <morpstau>
Yeah, always...
Paulsen vs Morphy, 1857
Still can't find the mate he must have announced though. :P Honestly, how can you stand to be so biased? Wouldn't you appreciate Morphy's brilliance even more if you accepted that he was mortal? |
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Feb-08-06
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| Boomie: What is astonishing to me is that Morphy was such a formidable blindfold player that we can't tell from the game. Ah, if only he could have played at Amber. |
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Nov-14-07
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| nimh: Rybka 2.4 mp, AMD X2 2.01GHz, 10 min per move, threshold 0.33. Schulten 4 mistakes:
12.dxc6 -2.83 (12.h3 0.17)
13.Kf1 -4.20 (13.Bc3 -2.81)
15.Qb1 -6.43 (15.Rb1 -4.36)
16.Kf2 #8 (16.Kg1 -6.09)
Morphy no mistakes! |
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Jan-29-08
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| Calli: This game is not Blindfold or match. Correction submitted. |
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| Apr-28-08 |
| LoveThatJoker: Can someone please explain what happens if instead of 11. c4, White plays 11. Nf3. |
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Apr-28-08
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| tamar: If 11 Nf3 Bxf3 12 gxf3 Qe7 and White cannot even castle. |
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| May-01-08 |
| LoveThatJoker: TY, tamar. After 12...Qe7 it does look totally brain busting for White to even attempt to try and hold the position. Obviously 13. c4 would be in order at that point to protect the pawn. And then trying to activate the rooks some how to assist in the defence. Positionally White is still devastated, but I will say that it looks like he has a better chance in fighting it out and not getting mated as quickly. What do you think?
LTJ |
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| May-01-08 |
| LoveThatJoker: Emphasis on the 'as quickly' part. :)
LTJ |
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May-01-08
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| tamar: <LoveThatJoker> I imagine Morphy would try to open the game against 13 c4 as he did against 11 c4 in the game.
So I would suggest 13...c6 although the computers favor a positional edge gained by 13...Nh5 and winning the f4 pawn eventually. |
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Jul-14-08
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| IMlday: 10.Kf2!? is an improvement. |
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Jul-14-08
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| An Englishman: Good Evening: Did Wilhelm Steinitz ever annotate this game? I have heard that he was fond of pointing out that many famous attacks were unsound and that the defense should have won. I ask because 6...e3 and 7...0-0 always seemed somehow a bit fishy to me. <nimh> passes on Rybka's analysis that Morphy made no mistakes, but I don't know... |
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Jul-14-08
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| IMlday: Steinitz would have liked 10.Kf2 Qxd5 11.Nf3 Ng4+ 12.Kg3 with an active
and central control. Instead of 6..e3
Bronstein preferred 6..0-0. |
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Jul-14-08
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| nimh: <I ask because 6...e3 and 7...0-0 always seemed somehow a bit fishy to me.> Rybka and Fritz 11 both prefer the aforecited moves.
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Jul-14-08
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| An Englishman: Good Evening: So it looks like we'll have to run 10.Kf2 past the silicon monsters and see what they think. Thanks for the feedback, everyone. |
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