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Sep-05-23 | | boz: <fabelhaft> Sounds just like my online blitz losses. Maybe my opponents are cheating! |
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Sep-05-23 | | zaxcvd: Kramnik is absolutely correct. Cheating percentage is high even among very low rated games - it jumps with financial incentive. Chess.com eventually gets *some* of the cheaters *after* a very long time. Suggestion that chess.com implement cameras for prize events will eventually happen.
The game itself will sink into the cesspool of low iq idiots with engines (at the lower level) and con artists trying to make money at the higher elo levels. |
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Sep-05-23 | | zaxcvd: absolutely insane - the 2 move mate self mate from Kramnik. Online chess is a different beast - there is absolutely no trust with rampant cheating from your average Joe Doe who happens to play like a GM. Wonder if it is possible to have a cheating world champion in the future?!! |
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Sep-05-23 | | dehanne: Krybaby Kramnik. |
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Sep-05-23
 | | Check It Out: The world needs a chess antagonist to keep things balanced. Not by cheating, mind you, just attitude. A punk rocker if you will. Niemann has that bad boy vibe. Better than Carlsens bad boy vibe, which has a "I come from a wonderful family" feel to it. He clearly likes playing chess, so I hope he keeps it up, and most importantly improves his game. He has to reach the top levels to realize his dastardly ambitions. |
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Sep-05-23 | | EvanTheTerrible: Hans and Hikaru played their first game since this whole ordeal started. It ended in a draw with white pressing the entire game, but without any real chances. https://www.chess.com/game/live/876... |
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Sep-06-23 | | Damenlaeuferbauer: I know, this is an US American website, but it is absolute ridiculous to compare the great personality of Vladimir Kramnik, who achieved a lot in chess, e.g. the world championship, with this little cheating boy Hans Niemann, who achieved nothing until now! |
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Sep-06-23 | | EvanTheTerrible: I don't think anyone is comparing them. Kramnik is a great champion, but that's unrelated to what we've discussed. He made a not-so-veiled accusation about Niemann, which, based on Kramnik's track record, should not be taken seriously. |
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Sep-06-23
 | | perfidious: That is a pure strawman; same as when Carlsen has made insinuations regarding Niemann's conduct, the former's greatness as a player is not the topic of discussion. Being an elite practitioner in any discipline does not axiomatically make one great at everything one touches. |
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Sep-06-23 | | Granny O Doul: Niemann was apparently unaware of Miles' recommendation of placing the Queen on h5 (at move 3) but then "j'adoubing" it to g4. I'm always a bit saddened when young players don't know the classics. |
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Sep-07-23
 | | Check It Out: <Granny> hah! |
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Sep-07-23 | | Damenlaeuferbauer: <EvanTheTerrible><perfidious> I am 100% sure, that super-elite chess players like Magnus Carlsen, Vladimir Kramnik, and Hikaru Nakumara know and feel, if their opponent or another player is cheating or not. Their main problem is to prove it in a legally secure way. |
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Sep-07-23
 | | MissScarlett: <I am 100% sure, that super-elite chess players like Magnus Carlsen, Vladimir Kramnik, and Hikaru Nakumara know and feel, if their opponent or another player is cheating or not.> Are you 100% sure that their feelings are 100% accurate? |
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Sep-07-23
 | | Sally Simpson: <I am 100% sure, that super-elite chess players like Magnus Carlsen, Vladimir Kramnik, and Hikaru Nakumara know and feel, if their opponent or another player is cheating or not.> I recall Nakamura claiming this lad Tigran L Petrosian was cheating by looking at his eyes. Everyone has at one time or another thought their opponent has cheated if they lose an online game and if you play online long enough you will bump into a cheat. |
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Sep-07-23 | | EvanTheTerrible: It's one thing to suspect your opponent is cheating, but it's another entirely to accuse 20% of the players you face. Watch Kamsky stream a Titled Tuesday and you'll see that no matter how strong of a chess player you are, you can still be wrong. For what it's worth, I think Hans's online reputation and his rapid ascent over the board led to suspicions in GM circles, which probably influenced Magnus's thoughts. I find it likely that if you've been told someone is suspicious, you're far more likely to wind up at that conclusion too. I've listedn to many GMs comment on the Carlsen - Niemann game and I have yet to hear one say that the game itself is suspicious in any way. If we're talking about Niemann's disposition at the board rather than the moves, then it's not even worth discussing this. |
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Sep-07-23
 | | perfidious: <Evan.....I've listedn to many GMs comment on the Carlsen - Niemann game and I have yet to hear one say that the game itself is suspicious in any way....> That would probably be regarded, sans proof, as crossing a white line they dare not breach; after all, look at the firestorm in the wake of the game you cited, with nothing more than insinuations. Last year, two top poker pros were accused of cheating in online play and were each banned for a year. The basis of the accusations? Much of this was what I should term circumstantial and anecdotal evidence from colleagues. <....If we're talking about Niemann's disposition at the board rather than the moves, then it's not even worth discussing this.> Any such accusation on those lines--again, absent concrete proof--can only have its genesis in some sort of deviation from baseline behaviour. One would expect Niemann to be canny enough to disguise his acts if he were to go in for that. Perhaps we can ask John von Neumann (the 1990s patzer, not the better known figure), Sebastian Feller et al, who have been proven to have cheated. |
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Sep-07-23 | | Petrosianic: <I've listedn to many GMs comment on the Carlsen - Niemann game and I have yet to hear one say that the game itself is suspicious in any way.> Carlsen insinuated that it was suspicious that Niemann knew the line he had played as White, while Niemann said that it was a transposition from another line. Neither one of them was very clear. Carlsen because he knew it was an Ethics violation to accuse Niemann directly, and Niemann because he's not all that great a communicator. The bottom line is that Carlsen didn't believe either what he was saying, or implying. If he did, he would have turned the matter over to his friends at Sinquefield, who would surely have acted if the evidence justified it. Instead, Carlsen gave his own friends a big fat Vote of No Confidence by walking out of the tournament instead. Clearly he did not believe that even a friendly tournament committee would take any action. According to Stockfish, Niemann scored 92% accuracy in that game, which is nice, but hardly earth shattering, while Carlsen scored 89%, which is very low for him. |
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Sep-07-23 | | EvanTheTerrible: I don't mean this as an attack on you Petrosianic, but I really don't like the recent fascination with accuracy scores from Chess.com or lichess or wherever. First off, we don't know how those scores are calculated. Secondly, certain positions are much easier to play than others. From the moves themselves, there is nothing suspicious, even if they were to highly correlate with an engine's suggestions. |
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Sep-08-23 | | devere: <Damenlaeuferbauer: I am 100% sure, that super-elite chess players like Magnus Carlsen, Vladimir Kramnik, and Hikaru Nakumara know and feel, if their opponent or another player is cheating or not.> Carlsen is certainly a super-elite player, and he made a complete ass of himself at the Sinquefield Cup last year; so I am 100% sure you are mistaken. |
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Sep-08-23 | | Bobby Fiske: <Petrosianic:>
When discussing that game, and Carlsens action, you should include also this statement: "throughout our game in the Sinquefield Cup, I had the impression that he wasn't tense or even fully concentrating on the game in critical positions, while outplaying me as black in a way I think only a handful of players can do. The game contributed to changing my perspective." ---------
When being outplayed, Magnus usually praises his opponent, and he blames himself. Happens regularly, especially in broadcasted online tournaments. So, I don't consider him a "bad looser" per se.
But when Niemann found the critical moves, while seemingly being unfocused at the board, it triggered Magnus' gut feeling. |
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Sep-08-23
 | | MissScarlett: Carlsen had never played Niemann OTB before Sinquefield (excepting their beach frolics in Miami) so any assessment of Niemann's demeanour wasn't based on prior experience. He may have been observing him during the first two rounds, but as Niemann scored 1.5 points against Aronian and Mamedyarov he was presumably cheating then, too, so that wouldn't serve as much of a counterpoint. |
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Sep-08-23
 | | ketchuplover: I think looser is where anal beads come/go in |
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Sep-08-23
 | | MissScarlett: < I had the impression that he wasn't tense or even fully concentrating on the game in critical positions..> https://twitter.com/Enezator/status... |
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Sep-13-23
 | | MissScarlett: Hans challenges Vlad to a training camp...
https://twitter.com/HansMokeNiemann... |
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Sep-13-23
 | | offramp: YES! I just bought a used car from Hans Niemann! |
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