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May-22-24 | | EvanTheTerrible: It seems like Magnus should have clarified when given the opportunity instead of insulting the author of the article. I find it hard to believe she would just fabricate something like that. She was probably told something to that effect or interpreted what she was told like that and sought comment from Carlsen, which he refused to give her. |
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May-22-24 | | Bobby Fiske: When writing on a feature story, journalists usually decides for an angle early on. Also, some juicy details is needed for drama and entertainment.
A story can be told from different perspectives. Communicating dry facts isn't necessarily a priority.
Facts sometimes loses out to the chosen narrative.
I have first hand experience with such, from local and national papers here in Norway. |
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May-22-24 | | EvanTheTerrible: That may be so, but at least give them a chance instead of getting upset when you were given a chance to correct the record and you did not (you being Carlsen, not you BF). It's not like the article was overwhelmingly positive for Niemann. I hardly feel like that detail, while *juicy*, if removed would have changed the slant of the article. |
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May-22-24 | | Bobby Fiske: I couldn't read the article. Behind pay wall.
Anyway, mainstream media is just warming up on Hans and Magnus. Be prepared for a chock (laugh) when they make the movie, and the chess community gets the Hollywood treatment. LOL |
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May-22-24 | | EvanTheTerrible: I don't see what the harm in Carlsen responding to the journalist with the details he specified in the tweet would have had. What damage could the following do? "Your account is mistaken, I did not accuse Ootes of assisting Niemann with cheating, I only asked that he consider his how his actions might help inform a player of the trajectory of the game at critical moments". Easy, 5 second email instead of having his father write insulting messages to her instead. Just strange. |
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May-23-24 | | Atking: After Sharjah Open Hans Niemann is still not well established as 2700 Elo player... |
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May-23-24
 | | perfidious: <Atking: After Sharjah Open Hans Niemann is still not well established as 2700 Elo player...> Which proves, precisely, what?
Niemann is aged twenty and there is great room for improvement; a live rating of 2688 is hardly shabby. |
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May-23-24
 | | Sally Simpson: Hi Bobby Fiske,
<I couldn't read the article. Behind pay wall. > The first time there the pay wall did not kick in, I copied a chunk of it. The article is quite long, there is a lot of 'new' stuff (possibly fabricated or tarted up for effect). Some extracts relating to your question about an out of court settlement; my comments are inside <> <Regarding any out of court settlement> Niemann brought a $100 million defamation lawsuit against Chess.com and Carlsen; they settled with him out of court.." "...Niemann settled his lawsuit in August. He was allowed back on Chess.com, and while no monetary terms were disclosed, he acted in ways that made it look as though he’d won a considerable sum. Niemann bought a tuxedo, announced he was giving away a $10,000 scholarship, and gave several players the impression that he’d bought a penthouse in the heart of London. He sent Dlugy a photo of an £18,000 Rolex he said he was considering buying. The spending was conspicuous by the relatively modest standards of professional chess. “It’s almost like he’s trying to send a message: ‘I’m bound by a confidentiality agreement not to disclose what happened, but here’s my cigar,’” says Malcolm Pein, the organizer of the London Chess Classic, which Niemann attended late last year. <the writer now adds, their brackets> (Niemann told me the flat is a six-month rental, and a recent picture shows what appears to be a $60 Timex Weekender on his wrist.)" After St. Louis, Niemann flew to a tournament on the Isle of Man and booked a suite at an upscale hotel. At the bar, he waved around thousands of pounds and bought rounds for dozens of people, except for two players he labeled “rats.” Around 4 a.m., Niemann was seen walking the beachfront, yelling, “I’m the best! I’m the king of the world!” <that last bit sound like the beach scene from 'Pawn Sacrifice' where Bobby Fischer is shouting at Boris Spassky and his entourage who are having a paddle in the sea.> <The article has quite a few references to Hans being slightly unstable. This comes with the gift of being a flawed genius IMO. This next piece perhaps sums it up best. > "In November, Niemann delivered a near-perfect performance to win the Tournament of Peace in Zagreb... Tournament champions are typically guaranteed an invitation to the following year’s contest, but Krešimir Podravec, the secretary of the Zagreb chess federation, told me that he would likely not welcome Niemann back. “Cheater or not, he clearly has some mental problems,” Podravec wrote. When Niemann arrived, he had insisted on seeing the room Bobby Fischer had stayed in when he played the Tournament of Peace a half-century earlier. Podravec told him it wasn’t possible: An earthquake had recently reduced the hotel to rubble, and only a construction crew was allowed in. Podravec recalled that Niemann wouldn’t take “no” for an answer, saying, “I have money. I’ll pay the workers to let me in.” “What’s the point in continuing conversation with that kind of a person?” Podravec told me." <The article...or up to the bit I managed to copy, ends with;> "Certainly the bad press has made Niemann much more famous than his rating alone would justify. That will likely continue: A24 is reportedly planning a movie about the scandal, 'Checkmate,' based on a book proposal by Ben Mezrich, whose previous stories of underdogs taking on entrenched power became 'The Social Network' and 'Dumb Money.' " "Niemann continues to cultivate a brand modeled after his idol, Fischer — a choice that overlooks how Fischer very likely went insane, was federally indicted for violating economic sanctions against Yugoslavia, and died in exile. “I accept and I encourage any further attacks on my career and life. Yes, yes,” Niemann told me. “By trying to destroy me, you know, someone who is so innocent, it only destroys themselves from within. So I hope that they continue. Because they’re just feeding the monster.” |
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May-23-24
 | | Susan Freeman: Interesting stuff here. |
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May-23-24
 | | MissScarlett: <US arbiter Chris Bird confirms Magnus version: "This is certainly an accurate description of what Magnus said to me at the time. I've mentioned this issue previously and try to ensure new media folks at events I oversee are very aware of such pitfalls.> From Ootes' website:
<I am a chess photographer and broadcaster, with a passion for chess coverage. Since 2012 I have provided a wide variety of services at chess events, including many of the most prestigious tournaments in the world. By attending over 20 tournaments a year, I am the most experienced chess broadcaster in the chess world.> https://lennartootes.com/#section_f...
Are we expected to believe that the Carlsen-Niemann game was the first time that this issue had ever arisen, in general, or to Magnus in particular? And how closely would Ootes need to actually approach the board? I've watched coverage of many Sinquefield Cups, and I can't recall ever seeing Ootes taking pictures in the final stages of games. But to comment further, I think we need to know more about the circumstances of Ootes's access to the playing arena. Was he the sole photographer granted the privilege of taking pictures during the entirety of the playing session? If so, is this a common occurrence at other events? Magnus: <I merely pointed out that someone who may or may not have knowledge of engine evaluations entering the room or going up to a board at certain times, can unknowingly give players tells.> Was Ootes, in fact, allowed in and out of the secure playing area at will? I had assumed upon first reading this story that he would have to remain within the playing arena throughout the session - or that if he chose to leave, he couldn't return. Was his access limited from round 4 onwards? |
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May-23-24 | | nok: <Magnus: <I merely pointed out that someone who may or may not have knowledge of engine evaluations entering the room or going up to a board at certain times, can unknowingly give players tells.>> That's frickin paranoid. Reminds me of the yogurt stuff in Baguio. |
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May-23-24
 | | perfidious: This coming weekend, I am playing a FIDE event for the first time in many years. Have to remind myself to shut off my phone--not that I need the distraction during the game in any case--but if someone tries the full-on body search, they may have an unpleasant surprise in the offing. |
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May-23-24
 | | Sally Simpson: Magnus certainly did something 10 seconds off the board before coming back and resigning (see the vid link above.)
and what ever it was attracted Hans's attention. It was not, as Magnus confirms an
accusation aimed at Lennart Ootes.
He may have muttered to Lennart Ootes or someone else that this guy is cheating I can tell (or something like that) and this rumour sprang from that. Father Carlsen most likely reacted to yet another cock and bull story regarding this matter. ---
Good Luck Perfidious. Will you be on a live board, if so C.G. can put it here as a live game. The Bio Boys will interested in your 50 year old opening repertoire and do not forget, as this is a FIDE tournament descriptive notation is not a recognised notation under FIDE rules. |
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May-23-24
 | | perfidious: <Geoff>, I doubt there is any live action there; besides, I am liable to play myself outta contention by the end of Saturday. Strange thing is that there are no GMs entered in advance, including two who always seem to turn up for everything in that area. |
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May-24-24 | | Bobby Fiske: <Sally Simpson>Thank you very much, for the text. There is also a funny Niemann story from Spain, when he played the Menorca Open in April 2023. According to the tournament Vice President Oriol Masip, Niemann arrived the tournament in a limousine with driver, and smoking cigars on the venue’s balcony during some of his games. So, his “big spender” habit predates the lawsuit against Magnus, Nakamura and chess.com. That lawsuit was dismissed by the court in June 2023. Yale law professor Stephen L. Carter stated that the case would be "tough to win", based on legal precedents and the difficulty of proving actual malice under US law. My guess is that after the lawsuit was dismissed, it was more important for Niemann to be allowed back onto the chess.com platform and being able to meet Magnus/Nakamura in future tournaments. I doubt any money was involved from Nakamura, chess.com or Magnus, simply because the lawsuit claim was not sound. On the other hand, I believe Niemann has established a solid income from his social media channels. I posted some numbers on this page some time ago. The cheating-scandal made him famous, and combined with the gimmick Bobby Fischer image, he attracts social media subscribers = $$$. Which is good for him. A kind of consolation prize, since I don’t think he cheated in that particular game against Magnus. Magnus probably misjudged Hans’ erratic OTB behaviour. HENRIK CARLSEN
I know Magnus’ father in person. He is very soft spoken and modest. I wonder what the journalist must have said to make him so upset. |
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May-24-24
 | | Sally Simpson: Hi Bobby Fiske,
It may have been the last straw on the proverbial camel's back. Every bampot from masters to clowns with keyboards (guilty) has expressed an opinion on what happened. 99.99% of them are wrong. Here it would appear (clown with a keyboard assumption coming up) this journalist has been in touch with the family and twisted the interview out of shape. I doubt if this incident will ever fully go away and the book, TV series, film will not help with any form of closure. I'm still toiling with the interest angle for the NCP's (non-chess players) How ever it is done I cannot see Magnus coming out of it the good guy.
Poor misunderstood Hans battling against The Carlsen Corporation just because he happened to beat Magnus at one game of chess. That possible angle is touched upon in that article; "...his story is one of powerful people trying to crush one of the strongest players of his generation for mistakes he made as a child. “Hans is the hugest talent since Bobby Fischer,” says Shernaz Kennedy, who was Fischer’s friend and manager and who hired Niemann to teach at her chess school. “He doesn’t have to cheat. And he is going to be world champ. I’m telling you: Out of every kid I’ve taught for years, this guy has really got it.” There are other quotes (or knowing this journalists track record, misquotes) from Greg Shahade and Bruce Pandolfini attesting to the genius of Hans. Any two bit soap writer could twist a few facts for dramatic effect.
How about having Magnus resigning the world title AFTER the Hans game because FIDE would not ban Hans for life for cheating. We would know that was not true and utter nonsense but the NCP's would lap it up. |
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May-24-24 | | Bobby Fiske: Yes, probably the script will be quite unrecognizable from the truth. @HeMateMe suggested Nakamura’s character should be a woman, to spice it up, hehe.
Let‘s hope it will be good entertainment at least. Niemann is a huge talent, of course, but so are many others. His play strength seems to be stalling at a high 2600-level. He is currently the #8 player in USA.
If he wants to be seen as the next Bobby Fischer, he needs to improve his play strength a notch or three. |
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May-24-24 | | EvanTheTerrible: I don't like the idea that if this is framed positively for Niemann that Carlsen is somehow a victim here. I don't believe Carlsen acted selfishly, I truly believe he thought Niemann was cheating and he wanted to protect the game he has dedicated his life to, but that doesn't mean he was justified in what he did and while he may be frustrated with the constant questions and mischaracterizations he feels he is being subjected to, imagine the devastation for Niemann. I don't like cheating, I don't want to defend it, but I believe people should get second chances, third chances, etc., I don't believe they should be written off permanently for past actions, especially for a minor infraction like cheating in online blitz games as a kid. We may disagree on the severity of immorality of his actions, but the fact pattern suggests there is no evidence of him cheating over the board and that after he was caught cheating online he served his punishment and played honestly from then on (with two years of clean play before he was re-banned after beating Carlsen). Niemann's antics off the board have helped contributed to his status as a pariah, but outside this do his transgressions warrant the complete and utter destruction of his life? Not only being mocked by fellow chess players, commentators, and fans, but having a sizable chunk of the non-chess playing population know him as the "anal beads guy"... it seems that life for him must be tough right now. |
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May-24-24 | | nok: <His play strength seems to be stalling at a high 2600-level.> They used to say that about Naka. |
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May-24-24 | | Atking: <nok: <His play strength seems to be stalling at a high 2600-level.>
They used to say that about Naka.> Really?? I'm sure Naka was among best 30 at 21 years old. |
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May-24-24 | | EvanTheTerrible: <Atking>, at age 20 and 11 months, Nakamura was rated 2704 and #30 in the world .(https://ratings.fide.com/toparc.pht...), which was his peak rating until that point. A year prior to that he was rated 2648 and ranked #61. At age 20 and 11 months, Niemann is rated 2688 and ranked #46 in the world. A year prior to that he was rated 2708 and ranked #31 in the world. Doesn't seem like Niemann is far off pace, except if we want to admonish him for climbing to that rating faster than Nakamura. Do I think Niemann will be a top player in ~5 years? I'm not sure, but I don't think it's early enough to conclude that he will not. He is already a fringe 2700 player at 20 and has shown aptitude to play much stronger on occassion. It's not about raising his best results, but rather raising his worst. |
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May-24-24 | | Atking: <EvanTheTerrible> I'm not sure we should to focussed on Niemann's perfomance - even for himself - In fact there is already few younger talents on the top Abdusatorov; Gukesh; Airigaisi; Praggnanandha; Firoujya; Keymer... even Wei Yi was up to 2700 at age of 15. However I can understand the support for a player according to his style. |
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May-25-24 | | EvanTheTerrible: <Atking>, there are definitely greater talents out there (my money has always been on Abdusattorov), but I think it's just silly to write Niemann off so soon. Even if he ultimately fizzles out and never manages to break through, current data would suggest he has a decent shot. |
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May-25-24
 | | Sally Simpson: Hi Evan:
<I don't like the idea that if this is framed positively for Niemann that Carlsen is somehow a victim here. > I'm not up for that idea either but I'm thinking this is perhaps the only way to make this work for the NCP's. A David v Goliath thing which is a theme the author Ben Mezrich leans towards. If it was the BBC doing a documentary then you would get a balanced view. Hollywood will just grab a few facts and twist them like they did with 'Pawn Sacrifice.' and every other real life incident they have got clammy hands on. From the article we read Hans's father lost money in the 2008 financial crash and filed for bankruptcy. The family moved to Holland. Hans was good at chess as a child and other children did not like playing him (because he was so good.) Hollywood will have the family fleeing the USA overnight to escape debt collectors to live in an Albanian one roomed bedsit. Because he plays chess Hans is a loner with no friends apart from his pet dog 'Bobby'. (a heart warming clip of Hans trying to teach 'Bobby' to play chess because he is alone and has no one to play chess with.) Against him we have Magnus who is very rich, a playboy, a male model, exaggerate he (like every other player) is a sore loser...the perfect villain. Chop it up so appears that if Hans is not banned for life then Magnus will resign his title. (both things happened in the same year, that is good enough for Hollywood.) Add in for effect; 'Bobby' is run over in mysterious circumstances, Greta Thunberg and Hans get married...(they were both born in the same year, that is good enough for Hollywood.) |
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May-26-24
 | | Check It Out: <SS> Good insight to the Hollywood frame. Reality us not good enough, they need to find an "angle". Chess has frequently been a hollywood trope, but if it involves orifices, we'll then they're in whole hog. |
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