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| Oct-31-09 | | GalileoPiccolino: With his well done Performance in the ETCC 2009, he's now a Legit 2600+ GM on the rise. Bleeps on the chess radars. |
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| Oct-31-09 | | Appaz: <og nå har pipen fått en litt annen lyd.> Good news!
Chess in Norway have lost to many talents to stupid academic education. Do what you are good at, make special experiences, there are more crossroads ahead. |
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| Oct-31-09 | | slomarko: <Being a professional for a couple of years, does not rule out a good academic career afterwards.> Maybe, but it doesn't help it for sure. |
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| Oct-31-09 | | zarg: <Maybe, but it doesn't help it for sure> Disagree. People are different, but at least I did better than my peers at UiO, _because_ I was motivated and competitive due to a prior professional sporting career. Not following your passion at that age, can be the worst mistake of your life. There is no problem whatsoever, starting off with an academic career at the age 22-24, actually I consider the risks higher at age 19-20... |
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| Oct-31-09 | | Ken Ji jun: There is nothing wrong in pursuit of Higher learning. A few years of burning the oil lamp will reward you with a Degree in Forestry or Game Warden Psychologist. Or an Economics degree, and try to figure out what's wrong with chess World Economy. |
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| Oct-31-09 | | Jim Bartle: I agree with zarg. In addition to the good points he makes, a person is often more prepared to take advantage of a university education at age 22 than at 19. |
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| Oct-31-09 | | MrMelad: <zarg: actually I consider the risks higher at age 19-20...> <Jim Bartle: a person is often more prepared to take advantage of a university education at age 22 than at 19.> Considering a person get to start his higher education only once (at a certain age) I was wondering what made you say that? |
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| Oct-31-09 | | slomarko: <There is no problem whatsoever, starting off with an academic career at the age 22-24, actually I consider the risks higher at age 19-20...> i have my doubts about that. |
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| Oct-31-09 | | Jim Bartle: Well, MrMelad, first I'd take my own experience. I went off to college at age 18, and really I was too immature to take real advantage the first couple of years. Of course I could have waited, but then my only other option was an all-expenses-paid trip to Vietnam, so I didn't even consider it. A college education is expensive, and requires a lot of work if you're going to take advantage of it. I just think a lot of people just go on to college out of high school without thinking too much about it, and don't work as hard as they should, or (as in my case) don't appreciate the tremendous opportunity they are getting. Maybe they could get the partying, full-time chessplaying, full-time mountain climbing, etc. out of the way before settling down to study. |
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| Oct-31-09 | | slomarko: <Of course I could have waited, but then my only other option was an all-expenses-paid trip to Vietnam, so I didn't even consider it.> You missed an opurtunity to become a hero like John Rambo! |
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| Oct-31-09 | | Thorski: I tend to agree with zarg and Jim, but it's almost impossible to generalize here. Conventions also differ vastly from culture to culture (compare Norwegian academic traditions to those of, say, Hungary, or Japan). While there's a lot to be said for emotional maturity, certain fields demand an early start. Mathematics is a great example of a field where plunging in at twenty-five would almost certainly guarantee an unremarkable career. Which is not to say it would be impossible, or even difficult, to succeed professionally, given sufficient talent and motivation. I suppose it comes down to what's meant by "a good academic career". |
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| Oct-31-09 | | MrMelad: <Jim Bartle> Thanks for the reply and your experience story! You describe a situation in which your life experience made you <guess> what would happen if you didn't go to college at 18, I on the other hand had the chance to go at 16 but went at 22 eventually and I'd always regretted. Maybe its not that simple, maybe you wouldn't have matured like you did if you didn't follow that path, after all maybe for you not going to college at 18 could have been a start of a bad feeling that could have lasted. Like my story! What I'm saying is its not the best idea to look back and regret. Instead of being bitterness towards the past we should be practical towards the future.. It doesn't matter what brought you so far its only matter where you are now, you can always go forwards! This is why young people are so fearless, they have no past to look at. About Hammer, well, he enters college willingly after a serious challenge, and even gives up a major thing for it, it sounds serious enough... Good luck for him maybe one day we'll talk about his Nobel :) |
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| Oct-31-09 | | MrMelad: <Thorski: Mathematics is a great example of a field where plunging in at twenty-five would almost certainly guarantee an unremarkable career.> How about Eduard Witten, plunging at 28? |
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| Oct-31-09 | | MrMelad: <Edward Witten> of course |
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| Oct-31-09 | | Thorski: <MrMelad> What are you talking about? Edward Witten received his Ph.D. at 25. |
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| Oct-31-09 | | MrMelad: I'm sure I read it somewhere! I'll have to get back to you on this one... |
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| Oct-31-09 | | MrMelad: I guess I was mistaken, could have misplaced 3 for 8.. Darn it! Should have checked it in Wiki first.. Thanks! |
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| Oct-31-09 | | zarg: <Jim: Maybe they could get the partying, full-time chessplaying, full-time mountain climbing, etc. out of the way before settling down to study.> Exactly!
If having a passion in life, I think it's even more important to live that out for a period. There are quite a few young students who drop out, or doesn't do that great after the undergrad level. |
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| Oct-31-09 | | zarg: <Mathematics is a great example of a field where plunging in at twenty-five would almost certainly guarantee an unremarkable career.> I will be very worried, if my kid go directly for it in math, my brother did it, but that path is rather risky... |
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| Oct-31-09 | | rogge: Hammer is going for some kind of economics Master degree, isn't he? It could wait a couple of years... |
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| Oct-31-09 | | zarg: First it would be a master yes, but he might aim for a PhD afterwards. Anyway, one don't need to start off that path as a teen. |
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Oct-31-09
 | | tpstar: <stupid academic education> First, it is extremely presumptuous for outsiders to judge his career options. Naturally it is his decision, in consultation with his family, and his life. Second, there is a definite problem with waiting on an "academic career" as 1-2 years of extra studies will always get the nod over 1-2 years of non-studies, even professional sports or chess. That is how Academia works. Moreover, anyone with postgraduate education understands it is that much harder to complete as you age. Third, how many young people are told to "follow your passion" by their entourage - friends, cousins, hangers-on - who only view them as a meal ticket. Often they get injured, or cut, or don't make it, and then they have nothing - no dream, no education, no future. What then? Reading this advice, I wonder if people really have his best interests at heart, or is it their own interests. |
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| Oct-31-09 | | MaxxLange: Prospects for an academic career aren't so great right now, either, at least in America. There are just too many PhDs, and too few jobs. |
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| Oct-31-09 | | MaxxLange: If you study mathematics at a graduate level, though, you should be able to convert that into at least a programming/data/statistics type job, though, at worst, even if you cannot become a professor or researcher. |
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| Oct-31-09 | | Appaz: <<tpstar> <stupid academic education>
Reading this advice, I wonder if people really have his best interests at heart, or is it their own interests.> Oh, definitely my own. I want him to get out there and entertain me! But I'm pretty sure my choice would have been some years of chess, given his options. |
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