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| May-15-12 | | Jim Bartle: I'll have to see it again. I think it could have been the batter interfering with the catcher. But the ball went to the backstop, so the batter was going to make it anyway. It was sort of a check swing, so maybe Manuel was in the odd position of arguing that the opposition batter did <not> swing. (Or maybe he swung too late, bringing up my question of a couple of months ago?) |
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May-15-12
 | | WannaBe: Whooooooo-whee!! Can't wait to see the Aussie team march into the stadium at opening ceremony! http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/olymp... |
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May-15-12
 | | Phony Benoni: I would be willing to wager a substantial amount of Greek Euros that he will do no such thing. But just in case, I don't want a seat facing the procession. I want a seat facing The Queen. |
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May-15-12
| | Phony Benoni: I found a highlight. Be forewarned that the accompanying story and audible dialogue are graphic, and may not be appropriate for anybody too young to remember Dick Fosbury. But there seems no doubt that (a) Davidson blocked the catcher; (b) that he instigated the confrontation. http://deadspin.com/5910548/bob-dav... Here is Davidson's umpire card:
http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/...
This is his 26th year in the majors, but he hasn't worked a World Series since 1992. That's telling. Looks like it might be time for him to retire. |
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| May-15-12 | | Jim Bartle: Thanks for that, PB! I guess he did get in the way. And I forgot to say that Davidson tossed Manuel while he was still in the dugout, and the face-to-face took place afterward. Couldn't make the video play at that link. |
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May-16-12
| | Phony Benoni: Hmm, still works for me. Maybe you had to be there.
Wikipedia's bio on Davidson makes interesting reading. He once ejected a mascot. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Da...(umpire)
Usually, I don't get down on umpires. They have a tough job, and I cut them a lot of slack. But I think he stepped over the line. |
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May-16-12
| | WannaBe: http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/pos... |
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| May-16-12 | | Jim Bartle: So Davidson was one of the guys who resigned in 1999. MLB really outmaneuvered the umpires union chief Richie Phillips that time. The umps were fools to follow their leader. I saw the umps go look at a replay today, a first for me. A Seattle hitter hit a high shot which left the park either just to the left or just to the right of Pesky's pole, against Beckett. They confirmed the call of foul, but that's got to be one of the toughest calls, especially when the fence is so close. In his book Ron Luciano says he lost sight of a shot deep to left, so he guessed and called it a home run. The other team's manager went crazy, and Luciano asked another ump if he'd missed it, and the ump answered, "Oh, what's forty feet or so?" |
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May-16-12
| | WannaBe: <Jim Bartle> Was that the 'Umpires Strikes Back'? Honestly, I've never read any of the umpire written books. |
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| May-16-12 | | Jim Bartle: Either that or "The Fall of the Roman Umpire."
Both are pretty funny. Worth the cash just for the comments about Earl Weaver. |
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| May-16-12 | | Jim Bartle: Luciano in Sports Illustrated:
The afternoon I ejected him in the major leagues marked a personal high for me. We were playing a doubleheader in Baltimore, and I got him both games. I was at first base for the first game. He came out in a late inning to argue a call and I started laughing, because I knew I was going to get him. "That's the trouble with you," he started screaming at me. "You don't take anything seriously; all you care about is throwing your arms in the air and jumping around." As he yelled that, he threw his arms in the air in an extremely poor Luciano imitation. "You can't throw your arms in the air," I screamed right back at him. "You're not an umpire." Then I gave him the thumb. Before the second game began he came quietly up to home plate with his lineup. Earl is one of the managers who take this exchange seriously. Earl took the Three Stooges seriously. "Now, Ron," he said calmly, "I want you to take this game seriously. I want you to call balls and strikes the way they're supposed to be called." I grimaced and shook my head sadly. "Earl," I told him, "I don't know how to tell you this, but it doesn't matter what you think, 'cause you're not going to be here to see it!" Then I gave him the heave-ho. Naturally he was upset. He refused to hand over his lineup card. "You're not serious about this game, and I'm not going to let you umpire." he said. "Oh, yeah?" I said. I grabbed the lineup right out of his hand, holding out a carbon copy to the ball boy, who was supposed to take it to the official scorer. "Don't take it," Weaver snapped. "Hey," I said to Earl, "you can't tell him that 'cause you're not here. You're out of the game." The poor ball boy didn't know what to do, but eventually I got the starting lineups to the scorer. Weaver left the field and managed the Orioles to a victory from the runway leading from the dugout to the clubhouse. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/va... |
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May-17-12
 | | keypusher: Here's a steal of home. Should the runner have been called out? Love to get your thoughts, Jim, since you umped, but a lot of people here know the rules pretty well, so chime in. http://deadspin.com/5911015/this-wa... |
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| May-17-12 | | Jim Bartle: I can't see anything except the original photo (says "removed by the user"), but what a nice high-school field, even if it does appear to be artificial turf. The name Lick-Wilmerding High School brings up memories from a long time ago. Our school used to play them every so often in non-league games or meets. On any tag play at home the umpire has to be careful not to call the runner safe if he avoids the tag but misses the plate. Once you signal safe the runner has every right to think he scored. You can feel pretty silly just standing there making no call, but that's what you have to do, until either the fielder or the runner figures it out. |
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May-17-12
| | keypusher: <Jim Bartle: I can't see anything except the original photo (says "removed by the user"), but what a nice high-school field, even if it does appear to be artificial turf.> Darn. Yes, video seems to be gone. Oh well. |
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| May-17-12 | | Jim Bartle: I read a description of a play in a Pittsburgh-Cubs game in 1992. Kirk Gibson was trying to steal second (OK, probably hit-and-run) when a hard single was hit into the hole toward right. Gibson's helmet had come flying off, and the ball hit it perfectly, bouncing straight to the second baseman. Gibson was charging toward third, totally unaware until he saw the third baseman holding the ball, and he was out in a rundown. Can't find a video, but here's the game (the play was in the 6th): http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/... I also see "Bonds was walked intentionally," so that started a lot earlier than I'd thought. |
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May-17-12
 | | OhioChessFan: Video worked fine for me. Runner is definitely out. Easily 3 feet out of the baseline to avoid a tag. |
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| May-17-12 | | Jim Bartle: OK, so I guess the guy went way out of the baseline to avoid the tag. He's out. One rule I've never seen is what can a runner do if he avoids the tag but misses home plate, and the catcher (or whoever) crosses the plate to try to tag him. Can he run all around the park trying to touch home, or does he have to come straight back to the plate? This can be particularly important if there are runners on, as they can advance while the catcher tries to apply the tag. |
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| May-17-12 | | Jim Bartle: OK, just saw it, a bit jerky on my computer. But I'd say the guy was safe, didn't run out of the baseline. Can't believe he stole home against a righthander pitching from the stretch. Or was it meant to be a suicide squeeze? |
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May-17-12
| | Phony Benoni: <JB> Under the cases when a runner can be declared out on appeal: <7.10d. He fails to touch home base and makes no attempt to return to that base, and home base is tagged.> The procedure is that the defender, with ball in hand, touches home base and appeals to the umpire. This is not the sort of "appeal play" that requires the pitcher to step on the pitcher's plate and all that. |
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May-17-12
| | OhioChessFan: Phony, yes, but the little juke dance is an effort to return to the base so a catcher can't just step on the plate after the runner has passed by. The umpire has some discretion(for example, the runner might already be 4 feet out of the baseline when he starts back)but generally, the runner had better head directly back toward the plate. |
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May-17-12
| | Phony Benoni: <OhioChessFan> I didn't see the play in question, but you are definitely right. The rules envision cases where a runner thinks he is out and heads for the bench, or goes in for stalling tactics such as running away from the base. |
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| May-17-12 | | Jim Bartle: That's one of the cases where a fielder is required to wait for an ump's call before deciding what to do next. Say a runner is heading toward third, and the catcher has to touch home base and wait for the ump's out call. The other that bothers me is check swing appeal to the base ump. The catcher does have to make the appeal and wait for the call sometimes, costing an important second or two. |
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May-17-12
| | OhioChessFan: <The other that bothers me is check swing appeal to the base ump. The catcher does have to make the appeal and wait for the call sometimes, costing an important second or two.> It's not hard to imagine a situation where it is vitally important to know if a batter has struck out. Say, runner on first, nobody out, tie game, and batter check swings as the runner takes off. If the catcher knows that's the first out, he might hold the ball and not risk a bad throw and the runner getting to third with one out. If the catcher knows it's not the first out, it's crucial to get the runner at second. But there's no decent alternative to the appeal to the base umpire.. |
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| May-17-12 | | Jim Bartle: That's the first situation that occurs to me. |
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May-18-12
| | WannaBe: I know I am a just an young'n, but most of the game I've seen, is K-2-4 double play. Never have seen a case where the catcher did not throw. also never seen a case where the home ump did not make a call on whether the pitch is a ball/strike. |
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