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May-02-17
 | | perfidious: <saffuna>, reading your original post, you noted that Beane is viewed in <Moneyball> as follows: <....But Beane is presented as a visionary and everyone else as a dummy. The scouts are portrayed as intransigent blind men. I'm sure they had their shortcomings (judging by look rather than results, preference for high school players), but it's hard to believe they had no ability to judge players. Manager Art Howe is a puppet with no power. Earl Weaver, who followed a similar philosophy, is never mentioned....> Phony Benoni chessforum |
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May-02-17
 | | saffuna: Also, the only mentions of shortstop Miguel Tejada are negative, that he swings at bad pitches despite hours of instruction and that he's part of the order that isn't producing. In 2002 Tejada hit .308 with 34 home runs, 108 runs, and 131 RBIs. That's not an outfielder or first baseman. That's the shortstop. He was overwhelming voted AL MVP.
Michael Lewis mentioned none of this. |
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May-02-17
 | | perfidious: Hitters such as Tejada, Garciaparra, Vladimir Guerrero and Puckett were a purist's nightmare: tremendously successful despite an approach which should never have got them anywhere according to all the tenets of baseball wisdom. If I had been a manager and had any of those players, I would have left them severely alone: if it ain't broke, don't fix it has merit at times. Lewis was obviously shilling, but for whom? Beane, or someone else? |
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May-02-17
 | | saffuna: I think Lewis was shilling for an idea: Moneyball. He had a lot to support his side, but he wanted even more. The 2002 Oakland A's put former catcher and apparently mediocre player Scott Hatteberg at first base to replace Jason Giambi, the God of Moneyball (that's stated) who had signed with the Yankee. It worked out pretty well and for little money. Replacing Johnny Damon with Terrence Long didn't work out as well, but getting 36-year-old David Justice to play rightfield part-time did. On the pitching staff, they had the three outstanding homegrown starters Hudson, Zito and Mulder, but Lewis focused on the oddball submariner Chad Bradford, used as an example of a pitcher who didn't look impressive but got people out. |
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May-02-17
 | | WannaBe: So, you want to be flushed down a toilet...
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/... |
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May-02-17
 | | saffuna: I notice that in a very exact comparison between A's shortstop and MVP Miguel Tejada and Texas Shortstop and MVP runnerup Alex Rodriguez, as good as Tejada was, Rodriguez was much better in every stat. First, they're both shortstops, so there's nothing to adjust there. Rodriguez was an excellent shortstop, and I never heard Tejada was far superior in the field. Call that a wash. Rodriguez led in home runs 57 to 34, RBIs 142 to 131 and runs 125 to 108, on-base percentage .394 to .354. Tejada's only advantage was a slight one in batting average, .308 to .300. The Rangers even scored more runs than Oakland, 834 to 800. And the A's scored more at home than on the road. Tejada clearly got the MVP (21-5 in first-place votes) because his team won 103 games while Texas won 72. And that was because Oakland pitching gave up 654 runs and Texas pitching gave up 882. But the A's came on very strong at the end of the season with the 21-game winning streak, with Tejada in the middle of it, so that carried the day. |
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May-02-17
 | | Penguincw: Speaking of the Athletics (momentarily changing topics), A's prospect Casey Thomas passes away. http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/... |
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May-02-17
 | | WannaBe: Holy Cow, only 24 years old. =(( |
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May-02-17
 | | perfidious: <saffuna>, A-Roid got his first MVP the following season with a Rangers side which won even fewer games (71), while posting stat lines not as good as he enjoyed during his runner-up 2002 season. |
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May-04-17
 | | saffuna: Here's a line I've never seen before:
"Contreras grounded into a double play, shortstop Galvis to right fielder T.Kelly to first baseman Stassi, Russell out." That's a 6-9-3 double play.
Cubs had bases loaded in bottom of 12th, and Phillies substituted T. Kelly, an infielder, into rightfield. Then they had him play fifth infielder to the right of second base. Ground ball and double play. |
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May-05-17
 | | WannaBe: http://www.espn.com/mlb/boxscore?ga... I'll never fully understand some of these baseball stats... Hendricks (CUBS) 5 1/3 IP 6H 0R 0ER 2BB 5K 0HR
Pineda (NYY) 6IP 3H 2R 2ER 1BB 6K 2HR
Game score: Pineda 63, Hendricks 59
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_...
Game score (invented by Bill James) is calculated as such: GS = 50 + # of outs + (2 * each inning completed after 4th) + Ks - (2 * H) - (4 * ER) - (2 * UnEarned Runs) - BBs |
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May-05-17
 | | Penguincw: Well you could try Game Score Version 2.0.
In that case, Hendricks gets 61, and Pineda gets 56. Looks like this Game Score is calculated 40 + (2*# of outs) + # of strikeouts - (2*# of walks) - (2*# of hits) - (3*runs allowed, earned or unearned) - (6*home runs given up). |
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May-06-17
 | | saffuna: When he introduced the game score Bill James said he wasn't trying to invent a rigorous way to evaluate games pitched. He just said it was a quick and easy way to get a general idea of the quality of the start. I believe Kerry Wood's 1H, 0BB, 20K game score of 105 in 1998 is the highest ever. |
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May-06-17
 | | WannaBe: This is freakin' hilarious. CIN 14, SFG 2.
But if you look at the box score, under pitchers for CIN, Stephenson, (S,1) http://www.espn.com/mlb/boxscore?ga... Okay, I know he pitched 3 innings, but when he entered the game, the score was 12-2... Stephenson's line 3IP 0R 0ER 1BB 2K, so he faced 10 batters. And got a save. |
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May-07-17
 | | Penguincw: Ah, the classic 3 inning save, where all you have to do is pitch 3+ innings effectively, even in a blowout, and the save's yours. That is part of the criteria. I do wonder if say, a pitcher enters a game where his team is up 10-0 in the 6th, and gives up 10 runs. Blown save? These saves are more impressive in games like MadBum's 5 inning save in the G7 of the 2014 WS. On the other side of the spectrum is Wes Littleton's save in the Rangers 30-3 victory in Baltimore, 2007... ---
Meanwhile, in San Diego, the battery of Clayton and Austin defeat the battery of Clayton and Austin. Wait what? There were no saves in this game, but 2 holds were given out. |
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May-07-17
 | | saffuna: I think it is Maddon with the Cubs, but maybe someone else, who is now bringing in his best reliever at the key moment, no matter when it happens. This is the right way to go, but it means convincing pitchers and everybody in general that the save is not that important a stat. The best guy has to be willing to come in in the sixth or seventh, and baseball people and fans will have to recognize that the save total is not the key. This will be fairly easy to do in the postseason, when there are more offdays and the end of the season is just a few games away. The difficulty is not to burn out the top relievers during the regular season, which is the reason for the strict rules today (ninth inning, only with a lead). |
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May-08-17
 | | saffuna: 41 total Ks in Yankees-Cubs game, approaching record of 43. Game in 16th. |
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May-08-17
 | | Penguincw: Wow, what a game. Took 6 hours to play, on <Sunday night>. Yikes. The game could've taken longer but thank god for the new rules, as MLB probably saved about 2 minutes from the 4 intentional walks in the game. Damn, Maddon used <3> pitchers to pinch-hit. I had a look at the rosters after the game. The Yankees have the typical 5-man rotation, 7 bullpen, 8 starters and 5 bench roster. Cubs, they have a 4-man rotation, 9 bullpen, 8 starters and 3 bench. :| (Heyward was out, and not replaced on the roster) Looks like the Yankees still had 1 reliever, and the Cubs had 2. |
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May-08-17
 | | saffuna: And that's not mentioning that prized closer Aroldis Chapman gave up three runs in the ninth to blow the save. I think he hit Rizzo to drive in the tying run. |
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May-08-17
 | | Penguincw: On a side note, I recently played a recreational baseball game, and my team won in a blowout. However, at one point (still leading by a good margin) with runners on 1st and 2nd, no one out, the best batter on the team popped up to shallow right field, just behind the second basemen. The second basemen lost the ball in the sun, and saw it at the last second, but the ball still ended up just behind him (i.e. he never looked like he could catch it). The bases were initially loaded, but the umps announced that infield fly was called, and the batter was out. Half the team was like "Really ump", while the other team had no idea what infield fly was. I think I proposed a rule here where on a ball that a fielder <could> catch, the defense is allowed a maximum of one force out if the ball is dropped. This could apply to any ball in the air. <Do you think infield fly should've been called?> I say no, not only because it didn't look like an infield fly, but I know the 2B would not have been able to start a double play, as defense and general baseball knowledge is non-existent at this level.* But what counts as infield fly? I thought it wasn't infield fly because the 2B wasn't set underneath the ball first. Once he does, infield fly should be called, just in case. *Just to prove my point, at one point there were runners on the corners, less than 2 outs. Batter hits a line drive to the 3B, caught, runner on 3rd tags up successfully. However, the runner at 1st, who was not going on the pitch, was rounding 2B by then! Instead of throwing to 1B for the out, the 3B throws to the 2B, and the ball sails into RF. The runner ends up tagging up just on time. The runner, he's a pretty good baseball player, but he's more of a cricket guy, and in cricket, he claimed that one would just run on a ball caught in the air. Meh, long post. |
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May-08-17
 | | WannaBe: You lost me at "Infield Fly"... |
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May-08-17
 | | OhioChessFan: Infield fly is called by the umpire as soon as reasonably possible, based on reasonable effort by a fielder. The fielder getting set or not has no bearing. If it did, fielders could circumvent the rule by not moving. Knowledge of the rules has no bearing, as ignorance of the law and baseball rules is no excuse. |
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May-08-17
 | | WannaBe: You lost me at "Infield Fly"... |
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May-09-17
 | | MissScarlett: J F Cross vs G H Wolbrecht, 1909 |
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May-10-17
 | | Phony Benoni: <MissScarlett> Got it. Thanks. |
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Later Kibitzing> |
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