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Jan-25-07
 | | TheAlchemist: <Marco65> Right, sorry about that, I was probably typing directly out of my head and confused something or simply forgot, it often happens. Oh, well... I guess it seems 2...d6 is getting more support. Ok, I don't mind it at all. |
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| Jan-25-07 | | hitman84: <Jess>
<I think <Hitman> HIT the nail right on the head>I normally HIT the nail on the right head ;) <Rocafella>
<I enjoy playing the line but I am far from an expert! Nc3, let's go classical> Yes classical Sicillian is worthy of consideration. I have very limited idea in the opening which was once Kramnik's weapon. If you have enough resources on the opening feel free to share it with us... |
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| Jan-25-07 | | Zebra: Reaching the Dragon via the Classical is full of pitfalls like <Marco>'s variation; it needs a little care, to say the least. If we were going to play a (non-accelerated) Dragon, better to play 2 ...d6. |
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| Jan-25-07 | | hitman84: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cd4 4.Nd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 now d6 and not g6. |
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| Jan-25-07 | | Marco65: <Zebra> is right about deciding where we want finally to go before we decide for our second move. I think it's important to understand what we have enough knowledge of. So far, I've seen Najdorf, Dragon and Sveshnikov. I reluctantly have to add Kan since I played in the past and I have a book on it (although 6 years old), now I simply hate it. It is unclear to me our experience with Classical, anybody (rocafella?) knows it? |
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Jan-25-07
 | | jessicafischerqueen: <Najdorf> and <Schveningen> are closely related positions- If you look through the databases here for <Najdorf> many of those games will be listed as <Najdorf: Schveningen> on the PGN diagram. My point is that if we play <d6>, we will know what line we are pursuing <as Zebra rightly says we should be thinking about>, and since the two variations are so similar it might make our research work easier, more ecnomical for time. We want to save all our serious energy for the entry into the middle game, no? <d6> play is current, well known, favored by Top GMs, and it will not take a huge amount of time to play the first 10 moves of any variation to come out of this move-- as <Hitman> has pointed out-- crucially, I think. Sorry if I'm rambling, it's 3 in the morning here and I've been playing and replaying games here on the CG database. It's fun, I tells ya. No really it is.
Heh
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| Jan-25-07 | | TTLump: <jessicafischerqueen: ...
Sorry if I'm rambling, it's 3 in the morning here and I've been playing and replaying games here on the CG database... >You better be sorry. I thought it was already established that rambling was my job! What gives? :) |
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| Jan-25-07 | | TTLump: <hitman84: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cd4 4.Nd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 now d6 and not g6.> and there is an excellent chance of reaching this identical position with 2... d6 also, right? 1.e4 c5
2.Nf3 d6
3.d4 cxd4
4.Nxd4 Nf6
5.Nc3 Nc6
... so what are the pitfalls and/or ramifications of choosing a different sequence to get to the same position? |
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| Jan-25-07 | | TTLump: question: When you get to this position mentioned by <hitman> above: Opening Explorer The chess-games opening explorer lists the Richter-Rauzer at the top of this list, and for sure, if White then plays Bg5, then we're in the Richter-Rauzer, like it or not, correct? To be honest I am not sure I am interpreting the opening explorer results correctly ... help! ... |
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| Jan-26-07 | | Marco65: Opening Explorer shows that 6.Bg5 is the most popular and most successful against Classical Sicilian. And yes, that can be reached both by 2...Nc6 and 2...d6. Therefore it makes sense to play Nc6 if we want to reach a Sveshnikov / Kalashnikov / Lowenthal. I'm still asking who has experience with the Classical as Black |
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| Jan-26-07 | | Marco65: <jessicafischerqueen> Thanks for overestimating my "chess q" in brankat's forum, it might be psycologically good against MFO! But someone who stays awake until 3am to study our game will always be more helpful to the team than I'll ever be! |
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| Jan-26-07 | | Zebra: Please count me as voting for ...d6, unless I say otherwise before the deadline. I am still open to persuasion for Nc6, but would still prefer not to play a Sveshnikov. As for the longer term, I would be more than happy if there was enough support for a Dragon, but I suspect there isn't and I am not going to try and plug it. So my second suggestion would be to go for a Najdorf / Scheveningen type position. As <Jess> says, these are really very similar. I used to like Kasparov's early approach, of playing d6 and a6 and delaying the development of the QN to keep both options open, though usually he ended up playing it to c6. (Classic example: Karpov vs Kasparov, 1985). I would be interested to know when and why he abandoned that system, if anybody knows. As for my opening resources, I have books on the Dragon, Scheveningen (Kasparov and Nikitin, a bit old now), Kan, and for white, Sozin against most systems. I have nothing on the Najdorf, but am prepared to trust <hitman> and the others round here who play it. |
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| Jan-26-07 | | Zebra: By the way, am I right in thinking that EST is GMT/UTC minus 5? |
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| Jan-26-07 | | dakgootje: Fine with any variation at the moment. Only ask for my vote if it is a close call between 2-3 moves. Note, that is only this way at this move and possible some others in the opening, so don't expect I've got no opinion later on ;-) |
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Jan-26-07
| | TheAlchemist: <By the way, am I right in thinking that EST is GMT/UTC minus 5?> Yes. |
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| Jan-26-07 | | Zebra: <Fine with any variation at the moment. Only ask for my vote if it is a close call between 2-3 moves.> I'm not going to lose any sleep over it either. I will go with almost any variation as long as we've got people who know how to play it. |
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| Jan-26-07 | | Marco65: <I would be more than happy if there was enough support for a Dragon> Why not? I know as much of it as Black as Najdorf, i.e. nothing. I support both! |
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Jan-26-07
| | jessicafischerqueen: Last night's games at <Corus>: Four e4 openings.
1 Petrov, 3 Sicilians- (2 <Najdorfs> and a <Dragon>). So I vote d6, as you all know. First 5-6 moves don't vary much once we play d6-- |
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Jan-26-07
| | jessicafischerqueen: If anyone wants to play a <dragon>, I'd be more than happy to go along with that too. Dragon games are usually pretty decisive, comparative draw percentage is low compared to almost every other response to e4. I think <Najdorf> is safer for Black, but <Dragon> might be more exciting and nervy, if that's what we're looking for. But I still favor d6 |
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| Jan-26-07 | | chessmoron: My biggest problem with Black's opening formation in the Dragon is the "Yugoslav Attack", which involves (for White) an equally rapid development of his pieces with an aim to opening lines on the kingside and checkmating Black. Bobby "crazy" Fischer has refuted this opening in his career. If you guys really want to study Dragon Variation, Garry Kasparov is your man for that. Personally, I'm in favor of Najdorf. |
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Jan-26-07
| | jessicafischerqueen: So <Wilson> votes d6... I agree <Najdorf> safer for us, plus <Kasparov> Najdorfs with Black (and White) are good places to study, as <Wilson> and <Zebra> suggest- I've been looking at <top> and <anand> games, maybe someone else has time to analyze a few dozen <Kasparov> Najdorfs? |
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Jan-26-07
| | jessicafischerqueen: I have to wash my cats today, so if I'm not around when our esteemed <Captain> enters our final choice for our next move-- To quote the Captain in the <Oxbow Incident> before he authorizes the hanging of an innocent man: "I will abide by majority rule."
Heh |
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| Jan-26-07 | | Zebra: <I have to wash my cats today> You must be a braver zebra than I am.
<Bobby "crazy" Fischer has refuted this opening in his career.> I assume you mean the defence rather than the attack? I wasn't aware that either had been definitively refuted. |
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Jan-26-07
| | jessicafischerqueen: Bobby <refuted> a lot of openings. Thing is, for some of these <refutations> to work you'd actually have to be as dominant over the other GMs as Fischer was in 1970-72. "The King's Gambit is NOT busted."
LOL
The Dragon is not refuted in theory at this point- it was just played last night at <Corus>. |
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| Jan-26-07 | | Zebra: Maybe it would be a good idea to assemble a little shared collection of relevant games as we go on? I have started a selection of Sicilians at Game Collection: Sicilian beauties which could be used for the purpose, or we could start a new one. |
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