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Jan-26-07
 | | TheAlchemist: Just because Fischer did well against the Dragon, doesn't mean it's been refuted, it's not as simple as his "sac, sac, mate". As flawed as it may be, but just to give and example, if we just judge the most common position that arises from the Yugoslav attack, it's only 38.2% for White and 36.5% for Black: Opening Explorer I think the Dragon lost its reputation in the big league because of some devastating losses like Fischer vs Larsen, 1958 and especially Karpov vs Korchnoi, 1974. But still, we have many classics on our side as well: Anand vs Kasparov, 1995, A Planinc vs Velimirovic, 1975, J Littlewood vs Botvinnik, 1962 etc. It's double-edged, but in no way refuted. In 2006, the win/loss (without draws) stats are, for respective ECOs in the Yugoslav attack: 13:8 (B75), 20:17 (B76), 13:11 (B77), 14:15 (B78) and 1:0 (B79) |
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| Jan-26-07 | | Zebra: Personally I can't see how such a natural and principled opening could be unsound, unless there's something wrong with the usual "rules" of good opening play. But I admit that it is a bit of a roller-coaster ride, and perhaps more importantly involves a heavy reliance on theory, so it may not be to everybody's taste. |
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Jan-26-07
| | TheAlchemist: <Zebra> I think it could also be wise to check out the repertoire explorers of some of the best practitioners of the Sicilian for "tips" in certain positions as well, like Kasparov, Topalov, Anand, even Fischer, etc Korchnoi and Botvinnik were successful with Black in the Dragon, as far as I remember. |
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| Jan-26-07 | | Zebra: Right, I agree. Good thing it's the weekend ;) |
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| Jan-26-07 | | hitman84: I'm not sure.. both d6 and Nc6 are fine with me.
If we are playing the dragon, this line leads to a draw with perfect play from both sides.. Opening Explorer This line is a good one for black..
White has to be very careful.
Opening Explorer |
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| Jan-26-07 | | hitman84: I play the dragon only when I badly need to win and this is the line I play.. Opening Explorer The best continuation for white is Nd5 and I once drew a master from black's side. |
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| Jan-26-07 | | Zebra: Right. I normally play this one (Opening Explorer), which is Ward's favourite. I like its sheer uninhibited aggression. The statistics however seem to be in favour of your line. |
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| Jan-26-07 | | chessmoron: <this line leads to a draw with perfect play from both sides..> Draw!? Come on man. Victory is our motto here. To quote John Nunn's view of Dragon Variation: "General principles aren't much help in the Dragon, since success or failure is determined mainly by tactical considerations." |
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| Jan-26-07 | | Rocafella: <hitman> I like the classical as it's easy to play. As goes for tactics, I am not your man. I have actually been beaten by my computer at chess. The sad thing is, it doesn't even have a chess program lol |
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Jan-26-07
 | | jessicafischerqueen: The highest rated opponent I ever beat on Yahoo (1700+) I did last summer with Black opening with <Accelerated Dragon>. I was so astonished that I won that it took me around 20 fumbling and inaccurate moves with a King + Rook against his King to convince him I knew how to checkmate with King + rook. The game was a thrilling roller coaster ride-- he was a patient opponent and didn't complain when I took upwards of 10 minutes for some moves. That said, there's a reason I play <Najdorf> rather than <Dragon>-- it's safer for Black, without question. And of course the <Dragon> is not theoretically "busted." I just think that <d6> brings us to safer options with plenty of opportunity for tactical counterplay, with an early equalization and early attacking chances for us. In the one strong <dragon> game I ever managed to play, we both attacked opposite wings from the get-go: it was a melee. Do we want an early melee?
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Jan-26-07
| | jessicafischerqueen: <Hitman> Very instructive <opening> explorer links there- Be sure to look at them, everyone-- Plus a good idea to go through the games <our captain> provided before making our final choice of moves? As I understand it we have two candidate moves on the table at this point? |
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Jan-26-07
| | jessicafischerqueen: I still vote <d6>, officially now. |
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Jan-26-07
| | TheAlchemist: <Jessica> As I see it, d6 has most of the support and that's what I will post in a few minutes. The discussion has rather switched on the opening following 2...d6. |
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Jan-26-07
| | jessicafischerqueen: Sounds good, venerable <Captain>. At the moment I'm taking the advice I just gave my teammates and am going through the Sicilians you posted above... 3. d4 cxd4
4. Knightxd4 I'll betchya --
lets think about move four, and which variation we want to steer towards? I'm still advocating <Najdorf-Schveningen>, no surprise there. So I'm advocating Nf6, a6, etc.
Note- Top-Anand <Najdorfs>- Bg5 is almost never played, Be3 is the GM line of choice against these two, at least in the dozen or so games I've taken a close look at. |
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Jan-26-07
| | TheAlchemist: I just posted the move 2...d6 on <brankat>'s forum. We will most likely reach the position after 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3, after which we have been discussing on playing either the Najdorf (5...a6) or the Dragon (5...g6). Important deviations we should be prepared for: 3.Bb5, 4.c3, 3.Nc3. Are there any other I forgot to list? |
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Jan-26-07
| | jessicafischerqueen: Good work <captain>. Maybe we could divide up inquiry into the <deviations> you listed? And maybe we should divide up people to investigate <a6> v. <g6>? I have tons of time this weekend, will do any work, and <follow every order, no matter how ridiculous>. (The last line there is from <Apocalypse Now>) |
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| Jan-26-07 | | Rocafella: d6? EWWWWWW lol |
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| Jan-26-07 | | EmperorAtahualpa: <follow every order, no matter how ridiculous> Yes, and don't forget the cannoli. :)
Sorry, watched Godfather tonight.....
How is it going, kids? I can't say this is the most exciting opening I've ever seen!! You'd better throw in a cool move somewhere. :) |
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Jan-26-07
| | jessicafischerqueen: <EmperorAtahualpa>: "You're my brother and I love you. But don't ever take sides against the Family again." Heh |
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Jan-26-07
| | jessicafischerqueen: <Cool move>
Topalov revealed a number of new <cool moves> in his Black <Najdorf> last night and went down hard!! <Josh Waitzkin>: "Rooks belong BEHIND passed pawns." Poor old Top had to resign- He should hire <Josh> to help him vet new moves in his most deadly weapon against e4. |
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| Jan-26-07 | | EmperorAtahualpa: <jessicafischerqueen> My favorite quote:
Sonny: "Hey, listen, I want somebody good - and I mean very good - to plant that gun. I don't want my brother coming out of that toilet with just his d*ck in his hands, alright?" :):) |
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Jan-26-07
| | jessicafischerqueen: LOL
"They got Sonny on the Causeway."
"Look what they did to my... boy..." (sobs). |
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| Jan-26-07 | | EmperorAtahualpa: Another great quote from Scarface:
"You know what capitalism is? Getting f#cked."
That one's sharp. :):) |
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Jan-26-07
| | jessicafischerqueen: Yes, <De Palma> is well known for exploring sharp lines, while maintaining traditonal positions-- Such as his visual tribute to the <Odessa Steps Sequence> he put in <The Untouchables>. Emperor, you realize that you can be a substitute player for our team. What if one of us gets "whacked" during the game? Could happen. <Danny DeVito> on <Saturday Night Live>, talking to a little girl: "Sometimes even Santa Claus gotta get whacked."
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| Jan-26-07 | | EmperorAtahualpa: <Yes, <De Palma> is well known for exploring sharp lines, while maintaining traditonal positions-- Such as his visual tribute to the <Odessa Steps Sequence> he put in <The Untouchables>.> <jessicafischerqueen> I know you're now referring to "Battleship Potemkin", but unfortunately I never got to saw that movie. :( Speaking of movies, there's a cool film festival going on over here in Rotterdam at the moment. http://www.filmfestivalrotterdam.com/
<Emperor, you realize that you can be a substitute player for our team. What if one of us gets "whacked" during the game? Could happen.> Yes, I'm already listed as first reserve. :) |
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