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   Feb-15-21 chessgames.com chessforum (replies)
 
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chessgames.com: <♕♔♕ Bettors and Worse ♕♔♕> As we start this year's ChessBookie cycle with the Summer Leg, I would first like to thank our fearless new Bookie <jingohanson>, who made it possible to continue the game. Next, I hereby announce in ...
 
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chessgames.com: Games have now been added for the Prague Chess Festival Masters and Challengers sections, and we'll include the Open section results as they become available. For news & details, see the official site at http://praguechessfestival.com/
 
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chessgames.com: Games have now been added for the Prague Chess Festival Masters and Challengers sections, and we'll include the Open section results as they become available. For news & details, see the official site at http://praguechessfestival.com/
 
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chessgames.com: Games have now been added for Rounds 1-3 of both the Open and Women's sections of the 2019 FIDE World Team Chess Championship. For news & details, see the official site at http://wteams.astana2019.fide.com/e...
 
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chessgames.com: Games have now been added for Rounds 1-3 of both the Open and Women's sections of the 2019 FIDE World Team Chess Championship. For news & details, see the official site at http://wteams.astana2019.fide.com/e...
 
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< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 888 OF 1118 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Feb-14-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Annie K.: <MissS> assuming for the moment that <cg> doesn't possess ESP powers either, what exactly is the format you would like to see? :)
Feb-14-16  zanzibar: You are hereby notified, a formal complaint will be filed at the UN, first thing in the morning.

There will be immediate repercussions to this bald-faced land-grab.

Feb-14-16  WinKing: <chessgames> please take note on the scoring of the Zurich Chess Challenge. They are giving 2pts. for wins & 1pt. for draws in the first segment of the challenge. The second segment, the blitz, the scoring goes back to normal(1pt. for a win, 1/2 for a draw & zero for a loss). This will affect the standings for the overall winner. Just thought I'd give you a heads-up. Your board in the Zurich forum shows normal scoring which is not the case. To determine the overall winner they will add the Rapid & Blitz scores of each player.

http://www.zurich-chess-challenge.c...

Feb-14-16  twinlark: Hi <ceegee>!

You might like to adjust the title of Zurich Chess Challenge (Blitz) (2016) to something like the <Zurich Chess Challenge 2016 - Opening Blitz> and use the existing title for the blitz event that is played on the last day.

The Opening Blitz to which the above link connects was played on 12 February, the day before the tournament started, to determine which players had White three times in the five rounds of the round robin first (rapid) section of the event.

The first and rapid ("new classical") section of the tournament is then played from 13-15 February. The second and blitz section of the event will be played on the evening of 15 February.

The results in the latter will be added to the former under the tournament's hybrid scoring system (<2, 1, 0> for the rapid section and <1, 0.5, 0> for the blitz section) to determine the overall standing in the Zurich Challenge - http://www.zurich-chess-challenge.c....

Perhaps they could be relabeled to make a clear distinction between the three, eg:

- Zurich Chess Challenge (Opening Blitz) (2016)

- Zurich Chess Challenge (Rapid) Tournament (2016)

- Zurich Chess Challenge (Blitz) Tournament (2016)

Also, the organizers have an idea about their rapid times (40+10) becoming the new classical, a somewhat arrogant notion IMO that may not be a good one to buy into. I mean in the event titles you choose for this tournament.

The titles on tab headings are shorter than the titles at the top of the tournament pages, presumably because of print space considerations?

On a related issue, I posted this earlier: Biographer Bistro (kibitz #12866)

Feb-14-16  twinlark: <WinKing> I started composing my post before you posted yours. Sorry about the duplication.
Feb-14-16  WinKing: <twinlark: <WinKing> I started composing my post before you posted yours. Sorry about the duplication.>

No problem <twinlark> with the two of us posting they might actually correct it. ;)

Feb-15-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Check It Out: <Chessgames.com: for the past ten days as well as today we have been just running through the list of the 10 best games of 2015, according to Game Collection: Best Games of 2015 …I'm not sure whether <tpstar> comes up with these puns on his own or whether it's a group effort, but nevertheless we used the titles he presented in his game collection without consideration as to whether it was an improvement or not.>

First, I'd like to point out what you say at your Pun Submission Page:

<Entries are judged on the quality of the pun>

How can you willy-nilly replace titles without considering whether the proposed replacements are an improvement or not?

----

Why not simply re-post the winners of <tpstar>'s private contest, and indeed any other terrific games, with the original titles?

Was there an agreement with <tpstar> about renaming the puns? After all, he put in a lot of work to find new names for them all.

Can others re-title games? Is there to be a submission process for renaming games? You say at the pun submission page:

<You should take great care when selecting the game to use, because you will not be allowed to submit another pun for the same game.>

Are we to take it that we cannot come up with a new title for a game we have already named, only another can? What a can of worms.

There is a voting procedure for rating titles, elucidated at the Pun Voting Booth. How can you justify changing game titles selected per that supposedly democratic process? Perhaps I don't fully understand the process, but the voting details are fairly explicit.

<Since all of these games are by definition very good, we will surely run all of them again one day, and then we have the opportunity to revert back to the previous puns. Or, just perhaps, we'll think of something novel.>

How sad it would be to re-title "The Immortal Game" Anderssen vs Kieseritzky, 1851, "Kasparov's Immortal" Kasparov vs Topalov, 1999, "A Long Walk Off a Short Peer" Short vs Timman, 1991, any of the Caissar Pun winners of past, and multitudes of other terrific titles, especially after you have made it clear that quality is key and second titles are not allowed. Where does this can of worms you've opened lead?

<CIO: I think the very notion of replacing puns is abhorrent>

<CG:let's not go so far as to be disgusted; this isn't to be taken that seriously.>

I second-guessed the word "abhorrent" as well. However, reviewing your statements regarding pun submission and voting leads me to the conclusion that you do take seriously your GOTD titles. I suppose I am disgusted that you would blow it off like this.

Feb-15-16  morfishine: WGM Humpy Koneru has her name listed both as Humpy Koneru & Koneru Humpy. Humpy is her first name, hence Koneru is her surname

Koneru Humpy

*****

Feb-15-16  zanzibar: Someday <CG> may start making collation names universally available, which can help in these matters.

It's an old saw of mine, so you can expect me to pipe in here and there when such matters arise.

FIDE (and really almost all other databases) use collation format, which is given on her FIDE card as:

<Koneru, Humpy>

http://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?...
.

Feb-15-16  morfishine: Thanks <zanzibar> You are truly a wonder
Feb-15-16  zanzibar: <morfishine> If you want to read some more on this name business, I'd recommend:

http://en.chessbase.com/post/what-s...

which discusses Anand's name at length.

It raises some red flags concerning the female Indian names adopting a different convention.

Feb-15-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  chessgames.com: <<chessgames> please take note on the scoring of the Zurich Chess Challenge. They are giving 2pts. for wins & 1pt. for draws in the first segment of the challenge.> I'm looking at their website and you are absolutely right, they use 2-1-0 scoring instead of the traditional 1-1/2-0 scoring.

I'm confused at what the difference is, though. Doesn't that yield the exact same leaderboard results as if they did it the conventional way?

Feb-15-16  zanzibar: Not if they use different scoring regimes during different sections of a multi-phased tournament.
Feb-15-16  WinKing: <chessgames: I'm confused at what the difference is, though. Doesn't that yield the exact same leaderboard results as if they did it the conventional way?>

No, the Rapid(or New Classical) is weighted. The Rapid wins count as 2pts. & the Blitz wins only 1pt.. Remember they add the two sections(Rapid & Blitz) together to determine the winner. Sooooo...if you are a fantastic Blitz player your not supposed to get too much of an edge. Didn't stop Nakamura from winning though.

Feb-16-16  greed and death: In re. GotD pun replacement shouldn't it be pretty easy to show <all> the times a game has been used as GotD (with the accompanying pun visible as well) at the top of the page?

This seems to me like it would avoid situations where any pun, good or bad, is permanently replaced by a different one.

Feb-16-16  morfishine: For "puns" the best solution is to make it a weekly contest instead of a daily deal

Secondly, delete the title a day or two later

This way, the "winner" gets their "Moment in Glory" while the games are not permanently scarred with torturous, painful, incomprehensible and otherwise nonsensical gibberish

Keep in mind, due to "diversity" our global viewers may not have a clue as to whats going on with the daily deal, which pretty much describes my situation :) lol

*****

Feb-17-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  chessgames.com: <Remember they add the two sections(Rapid & Blitz) together to determine the winner.> Oh right, I remember this from last year. We don't have any easy way to display the leaderboard by their standards but we can link to their leaderboard from the page.

<MissScarlett> You should be happy to know all games (not just the new ones) played in Caleta are now designated as "Caleta GIB".

<Puns> To paraphrase our local warlock, tpstar: "Chessgames has two great traditions: the daily pun, and complaining about the daily pun." With that in mind we see the whole thing working exactly as intended.

Feb-17-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  chessgames.com: <zanzibar> <Someday <CG> may start making collation names universally available, which can help in these matters.>

Yes, we will, someday.

I have an opinion about the collation issue which probably is nearly identical to your own, but the implementation is not so clear. As I'm sure you know we have two names for each player, the short-form and the long-form. So we have "Fischer" and "Robert James Fischer". What's needed is to make the long form in the format of "Fischer, Robert James".

Of course some people might not like seeing that at the top of game page (I know I wouldn't) but that's no problem--it's an easy transformation to turn "Z, X Y" into "X Y Z". The problem is the reverse transformation.

How on earth do I write an algorithm that takes the 80,000+ players in our directory and turn them from the current format to the collated format? I know we can scrape FIDE data for a lot of the big players, but we have a LOT of players. What of the others? How do we generically transform a string like "Aldsdfgs H Q Jerqjdd Kjdskd" into a properly collated name?

Perhaps the compromise is to collate what we can using automated tools and a few manual operations, then treat the ones that aren't collated like we do now: just print them as-is. Then slowly over time people can turn "Frank James Marshall" into "Marshall, Frank James" until we get all of the names in order. And what will be the big payoff? I guess our PGN would be slightly superior and our player directory could know the true last names of players, be them Asian, Spanish, or Myanmar.

Feb-17-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  chessgames.com: While we're on this topic, about Asian names which are sometimes (but not always) in the format of surname-first.

The situation is that especially in past years, we haven't been very good at knowing intuitively what a first or last name is. Everybody knows that Wang is a family name, but when we see a player like Yan Fang we don't know enough about their names to know which name is the surname. It's very possible that we received the name in Western order. I know many of you would know the answer off the top of your heads, but to us it might as well be my example of "Aldsdfgs Kjdskd". Besides, it's not like we have a staff to study each record individually anyhow.

What would a near-perfect solution be? Well, first collate names like zanzibar suggests, so we have "Koneru, Humpy' and "Hou, Yifan". Then add an special bit to each player which says "Asian-ordered-names". That way we could present "Hou Yifan" at the top of the page, which would be most proper, but also make sure you can find her in the H's in the player directories and not abbreviate her name as "Yifan".

Meanwhile the biggest problem is inconsistency, which is admittedly a problem, but not a show-stopper.

Feb-17-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  chessgames.com: <twinlark> Good point about Zurich Chess Challenge (Opening Blitz) (2016)
Feb-17-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  kingscrusher: Hi Chessgames.com

Is it possible to add a private messaging system in the future?! This might be very handy for some members. So say i want to message someone privately to their private inbox on the site, I could leave them a message here.

Feb-17-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  tpstar: <local warlock> Argh!

Please consider transitioning to GOTD *title* from now on so people don't expect to be entertained every second.

The Best Games contest has never been "private" but is one of the few things we do as a group. Next time I will run a daily countdown in my chessforum so voters can enjoy the results before these complainers ruin it for everybody.

Feb-17-16  WinKing: In the FIDE Women's Grand Prix Tehran (2016) forum you have the same game Harika - Gunina listed twice for Round 3. The correct version one is the one with 20 moves.
Feb-17-16  zanzibar: <chessgames> I'm gladdened to see the name discussion enjoined.

I'll post a little more later, but the vast majority of the difficult work has already been done by FIDE.

E.g. Yan Fang

Hop over to FIDE http://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?...

and it's <Fang, Yan>. Done.

And for those without FIDE id's you, already track nationalities - that makes the work fairly easy, just count words when parsing and > 95% of the non-FIDE cases are done with complete certainty.

Of course, the "de xxxx, la xxxx, von xxxx" cases need some care. As would names like:

Pierre Charles Fournier de Saint Amant

But it's a non-destructive transform - so easy to fix.

Plus you already have a list of collation-style names to reference for many.

Feb-17-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Check It Out: <Chessgames.com: <Puns> To paraphrase our local warlock, tpstar: "Chessgames has two great traditions: the daily pun, and complaining about the daily pun." With that in mind we see the whole thing working exactly as intended.>

You take up none of the points I made, except perhaps to discreetly acknowledge that you had an agreement with <tpstar> to replace game titles. I'm disappointed in your approach to this matter; you could have handled it much better.

<tpstar: Next time I will run a daily countdown in my chessforum so voters can enjoy the results before these complainers ruin it for everybody.>

Your bluster and derogatory words mean something else to others.

---

Look, yes I'm annoyed that my game title got replaced, particularly by a weaker alternative. It is a source of pride to score the title of the GOTD, ask anyone. So, to have a title I was actually proud of changed mere months later stung.

What stings even more though, is your dismissal of my point of view. We've disagreed on some things before, but I've always done my best to stay civil during those moments.

In general though, I've been a big supporter of this site: donating memberships for holidays, talking your site up, and simply being a positive contributor.

Heck, you pay more attention to posters who have been long-term thorns in you paw. I have a legitimate observation and you write it, and me, off with half a dozen words.

I'm seriously contemplating leaving the site. I'll think it over.

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