|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 802 OF 914 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Jul-05-16
 | | WannaBe: Cubs will send their 4 infielders to All Star game since 1963 StL Cards. 1963, Dodgers beat NY Yankees for the World Series trophy. Funny thing about that, the '63 Championship was the <ONLY> WS Championship that Dodgers won at home. They won one in Brooklyn and five in LA, but that '63 was the only WS won on 'home turf'. |
|
| Jul-05-16 | | Jim Bartle: I remember when the Cards whole infield was on the team in 1963. They were all starters, too. All of them made it again in 1964 as well, except for second baseman Julian Javier. I remember the Dodgers just squeaked out the Serious over the Yankees in 1963, 4-0. Yankees only scored four runs the entire series. (LA beat that two years later, only scoring two vs. Baltimore). Perranoski pitched two-thirds of an inning of relief in game two. That was the only appearance by a relief pitcher in the series. |
|
| Jul-06-16 | | Party Animal: Hey Phony, you're so smart, how do you pronounce Julian Javier's name correctly? Jooleen Javeeare, Jooleen Haveeare or Hooleen Javeeare? I remember as kids my cousin & I would laugh at the possibilities of his name. |
|
| Jul-06-16 | | Jim Bartle: Ha-vee-AIR. |
|
Jul-06-16
 | | Phony Benoni: <Party Animal> Simply pronounce "J" as "H" and you'll do well enough for anybody this side of <HB>. When other kids said I looked like junk I would thank them for complimenting my Spanish body. |
|
| Jul-06-16 | | Jim Bartle: The National League starting lineup doesn't look that imposing, certainly not by historical standards. Bryant and Harper, and maaaaybe Cespedes, are the only ones with really great stats. |
|
| Jul-06-16 | | Jim Bartle: Looking up the 1963 Cardinal infield, I checked Bill White's career. He was a good player and consistent with St. Louis for seven years. Not eye-popping but good.. White was on the 1958 Giants but rookie Orlando Cepeda had the position sewn up and they had McCovey in the minor leagues, a surplus which was never sorted out until Cepeda was traded to St. Louis in 1966. SF did get Toothpick Sam Jones for White, and he won 39 games in two years. The Giants' minor league system was producing great players year after year back then, and they didn't know what to do with them sometimes. |
|
| Jul-06-16 | | playground player: <Jim Bartle> In addition to serving as president of the National League, Bill White was a Yankee broadcaster for many years--and a really good one, at that. |
|
| Jul-06-16 | | Jim Bartle: Did not know that. |
|
| Jul-06-16 | | Party Animal: Hey Phony, what a lineup for the National League in that Allstar game! ; P |
|
Jul-06-16
 | | saffuna: As I wrote above, I am not impressed by the NL All-Star team except for Bryant and Harper. The hitting stats for the rest are not that great for starting all-stars, especially Fowler and Russell. |
|
Jul-06-16
 | | perfidious: <pgp> While never having been a fan of Yankees, I respected White's understated style behind the mike, regarding it as a welcome contrast to Phil Rizzuto, who tended to be a trifle hyped up for my taste. Frank Messer also called a good game. |
|
Jul-06-16
 | | saffuna: I watched quite a few Yankees games a couple of years ago, and I thought Paul O'Neill and Ken Singleton were very good, the play-by-play man Michael Kay as well. I could do without the "Yankees win...Theeeeeee Yankees win" guy. My impression is that local announcers are becoming more objective overall, not homers. Certain exceptions of course, such as Ken Harrelson. I think announcers in general are far too critical of pitchers. It seems every pitch which is hit was a bad pitch, which just cannot be true. They tend to overemphasize location and undervalue stuff. |
|
Jul-06-16
 | | perfidious: <saffuna....I could do without the "Yankees win...Theeeeeee Yankees win" guy....> You are far from alone on that score; John Sterling is someone I have always found off-putting. From a post five years back:
<....While on the theme of Sterling, here's a classic Matsui HR call by the master from two years ago:'It's high, it's far, it's gone.....it's an A-bomb!' Guess he forgot that it wasn't Rodriguez at bat. This also makes one wonder how those of Japanese origin might have felt on hearing this particular call....> Phony Benoni chessforum |
|
Jul-06-16
 | | OhioChessFan: There's little argument that the 600 or so best baseball players in the world are in MLB. A few AAA players might be there because they play the same position as a MVP candidate in the same organization, but for the most part, the best players end up where they should. But announcers? I think I could randomly pull 100 people off the street and they'd collectively be as good as the 100 or so announcers of MLB TV/radio. Not sure what that means, but it is really stunning what talentless hacks there are making much money to do something very poorly. |
|
Jul-06-16
 | | OhioChessFan: One incredible cliche' I've never heard discussed but drives me crazy. Pitcher gets ahead in the count 0-2, and the announcer will always-<always>- say "He's quickly ahead 0-2." Well yeah, it's tough to get to 0-2 slowly, but anyway. After I noticed it about a year ago, I have only once heard someone not use the word "quickly" in their description. |
|
Jul-06-16
 | | saffuna: Do you have any examples? Why are they so bad?
I've listened to Marty Brennaman of the Reds and he's very good. What bothers me these days is the overanalysis. Talking too much about the strike zone, talking about every tiny little thing, and often not well. I think Tim McCarver started that, but he knows how to do it. Other guys, they just spout numbers, comment on every little thing. (They also analyze by result, which is irritating.) |
|
Jul-06-16
 | | WannaBe: J. Miller for SF Giants always say "quickly". I do not believe it's "Time" quickly, but in term of baseball, if you fall behind, it's "quickly". Just my 5 cents. Inflations, you know. |
|
Jul-06-16
 | | saffuna: Jon Miller is very good. He uses many fewer words than most announcers, and has a quick sense of humor. But when I was watching games a couple of years ago I thought most of the announcers were good. In the 90s my cable system picked up the Denver stations and Rockies games. The announcers absolutely ignored the altitude-enhanced hitting stats of the hitters like Walker, Galarraga, Bichette and Castilla. Anybody who paid attention could see they hit much, much better at home than on the road, and that Bichette's and Castilla's production was wildly inflated by the park. But not a word. |
|
Jul-07-16
 | | perfidious: Liked Miller when he was briefly Ken Coleman's sidekick in Bawston in the 1980s. Pity he was replaced by Joe Castiglione, now numero uno. (Ugh!) |
|
Jul-07-16
 | | OhioChessFan: <saffuna: Do you have any examples? Why are they so bad? > I understand that announcers shouldn't be quick to criticize players, but some clearly will not, never, ever. The former players in particular are bad about that. Most of them don't know the rules of baseball, which drives me crazy. What do they have to do all day, but learn a little about the game they are making much money to talk about? <I've listened to Marty Brennaman of the Reds and he's very good.> The Reds have two good announcers, out of a group of maybe 7. Marty and Jeff Brantley are good. The rest are just horrible. |
|
Jul-07-16
 | | OhioChessFan: <What bothers me these days is the overanalysis. Talking too much about the strike zone, talking about every tiny little thing, and often not well. > I think they make too much of individual plays. I was a stats geek before it was cool and I think the numbers just crunch along and over 162 games, work themselves out. I don't know who was first to say it, but there is an old maxim that goes something like "Want to know how a guy will perform? Look at the back of his baseball card." One example: A couple years ago, the Reds had a pitcher in 4-5 games with one bad inning that was just killing them. Instead of just accepting that his ERA was still at the normal historical levels, the announcers kept saying such enlightening platitudes as "He's got to get past this one bad inning ruining an otherwise great start." Or the pitcher who gives up a lot of home runs, always has, always will, they'll say "He just had 2 bad pitches this game that ruined an otherwise great effort." And again, the numbers on the back of the baseball card don't lie. Regardless, the best players in the world are in the major leagues. That's not close to true for announcers. |
|
Jul-07-16
 | | saffuna: As I said, analyzing by result drives me nuts.
Say a pitcher has been a little wild, and goes 2-0 on a batter. If the batter drives the next pitch, it's "He knew he was going to get a fastball, and he was ready." If he misses or pops it up, it's "He's too impatient, he needs to take that pitch." Or say a runner is out on a great throw trying to advance, it's "You should never test Ichiro's arm" or whatever. It took a perfect throw and tag to get him, maybe it was a good risk. Yet the same announcer will be saying a runner should try to steal when there's maybe a 30% chance he'll be thrown out. Rick Sutcliffe is one who used to drive me nuts this way. Just going over every tiny thing, and always based on what happened. This gets away from just the announcers to the sportswriters and TV guys, but you probably remember Jack Clark hitting the series-winning homer in the ninth against the Dodgers in 1985. LA leading by one, men on second and third with two out, LaSorda decided not to walk Clark. The press was all over LaSorda, saying it was idiotic. But by any analysis the right move was to pitch to Clark. When you load the bases it only takes a walk to score a run, not a hit. |
|
Jul-07-16
 | | saffuna: <Regardless, the best players in the world are in the major leagues. That's not close to true for announcers.> There are bad roster choices in the major leagues, but largely that is true. (I think finesse pitchers and knuckleball pitchers tend to be undervalued, no matter what their record is, for example.) But announcers are not necessarily selected for their knowledge and ability to relate what's happening. The looks sometimes matter, and the voice sometimes matter, too much. What a player looks like doesn't matter at all. What's the great line? Kirby Puckett was asked what his greatest wish was, and he said, "To be Glenn Braggs for a day." Braggs was tall and powerfully built, looked like an athlete. Puckett did not. But Puckett was a ten times better player than Braggs could dream of being. |
|
Jul-07-16
 | | WannaBe: Believe it, or not.
SFG have the best record in baseball, not the Cubs. Most wins 54, and best percentage .621 Earthquake will strike any second now. =)) |
|
 |
 |
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 802 OF 914 ·
Later Kibitzing> |