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The Chessgames.com Challenge
Dancing Rook
THE WORLD WINS
The World vs Arno Nickel
C U R R E N T   P O S I T I O N

  
   Chessgames Challenge
Can a group of chess amateurs team up to beat a grandmaster?  Find out in the Chessgames Challenge!  You can vote for the move you think is best, and discuss the game with other members on this page.

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[Arno Nickel]

[flip board] GAME OVER: 1-0 [flip board]

MOVES:
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 a6 5.Bd3 Bc5 6.Nb3 Be7 7.Qg4 g6 8.Qe2 d6 9.O-O Nd7 10.a4 Ne5 11.a5 Nf6 12.Be3 O-O 13.Nc3 Bd7 14.f4 Nxd3 15.cxd3 Bc6 16.f5 exf5 17.exf5 Qd7 18.Qd2 Rfe8 19.Bb6 Ng4 20.Nd4 Bf8 21.Qf4 Ne5 22.Nxc6 bxc6 23.d4 Nd3 24.Qd2 Nb4 25.Rf3 Nd5 26.Nxd5 cxd5 27.Raf1 Rac8 28.h3 Bg7 29.Kh2 Qb5 30.fxg6 fxg6 31.Qg5 Re4 32.Bd8 Re6 33.Bf6 Rf8 34.Bxg7 Rxf3 35.Rxf3 Kxg7 36.b4 h5 37.Qd8 Qe8 38.Qb6 Qc8 39.b5 axb5 40.a6 Re1 41.Qb7+ 1-0
GAME OVER thank you for playingit is now 17:56:44
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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 753 OF 1067 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Nov-22-06  RookFile: <edda zeitz: 28.h3 was a waste of time. Qd3 seems much stronger, black must not answer Qb5, so Qb7 would allow 29.fg fg 30.Rf7>

Oh. Ok, thanks.

Nov-22-06  jepflast: So this is really our first one. Thanks for the info, all.
Nov-22-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: Two points that may crop up in future:

(1) Will we now (or in the next few moves) find it difficult - psychologically - to play h4, even if the engines and attack-minded humans like it? Simply because playing h2-h3-h4 feels wrong?

(2) Assume GMAN makes one of his 'normal' moves, and the plan calls for 29.Kh2. My guess is a lot of people just won't buy this: it's a lot harder to accept than a utility move like h3. So 29.fxg6 could come back into the reckoning by default. Or 29.Qd3, though it can be shown to be weak.

As far as I can see, the standard arguments against fxg6 still apply - no need to dissolve tension, too soon to know if f6 or fxg6 is needed, useful meanwhile to have both threats. But 28.fxg6 had a solid following, and it'll grow bigger next move.

So ideally we need a ready demonstration of why fxg6 is flawed, plus a good argument for Kh2. Assuming that this will be the case, of course.

Nov-22-06  jepflast: <Domdaniel: So ideally we need a ready demonstration of why fxg6 is flawed, plus a good argument for Kh2. Assuming that this will be the case, of course.>

Another problem may be 29. R1f2, which I like very much in case of Bg7 or Qb5 at least. I would usually follow that up with Kh2, so we need to see if it transposes from 29. Kh2. If it doesn't, it may split the camp.

But let's just hope fxg6 doesn't garner much interest next time.

Nov-22-06  benjinathan: I voted h3, but I have a hard time with Kh2 unless the plan is to do what <rookfile> suggests (Rh1). It feels wrong to put the king on a dark square when he has a ds bishop and it is a square open to the diaganol.

At some point we have to do something on the f file. However, I think it is possible that a move with the b pawn may still be in order.

I realize I am just 1 of 400, but I am one of the ones you have to convince about Kh2. Quite frankly, you guys have done a great job and it would not surprise me if you can make the case.

Nov-22-06  whiteshark: - Now Rh3 is no more possible.
- Our Bb6 is so bad.
- The tension is to big, so fxg6 is only move.
Nov-22-06  RookFile: Nonsense. Only a configuration with h4, Rh3, Kh2, and Rh1 makes sense.
Nov-22-06  whiteshark: Yes, with the idea of trippling on the h-file with Qh6 !!!
Nov-22-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: <RookFile> - <Any difference?> Good question. In one engine line I looked at after, I think, 27...Re4, white played R1f2 and black doubled rooks on the e-file. So white, having also got in h3, played Kh2 just before it could be forced there by ...Re1+.

Then black played ...Re1 anyway. Was there a difference? Hard to say. But a few moves later, black got his queen onto our 1st rank as well - and white played the 'prophylactic' Kg3, before he could be forced there by ...Rh1+

At which point I gave up. It occurred to me that humans follow a sequential if-then threat-based logic. Engines could be completely different.

Nov-22-06  Karpova: GMAN plays excellent chess - from a psychological point of view - regardless if intentional or not.

There are frequently positions in which natural and good looking moves appear and everyone would agree that they should be played after a quick look at the board. Just like Nd4 on move 18 or 19 - centralizing the knight and threatening to exchange it against the bishop and then when we finally played it Nc6: looked like the move of choice. Now we had to fight against Qd3.

All those moves have several things in common:
1. They look like sensible moves which seem to taken directly out of a beginner's book saying you should always strive to put your pieces on better squares. 2. They appear to aggressive and to threaten something. Either exchanging a knight for a bishop or attacking a lonesome (poisoned) pawn. Keyword: Initiative (you can read in every beginner's book that it's useful to have the initiative) 3. They don't lose. You can't easily refute them or at least not from a tactical point of view. They don't drop a piece or allow mate in 2 so they just can't be bad, can they? 4. Their goals are easy to understand (better placement of our pieces, attacking a weak pawn) so that everyone, really everyone can understand their purpose. 5. They give away our advantage and what could be more in GMAN's interest than that?

So in fact we have two fulfill two tasks: Finding the best move and fighting against mediocre moves who get lots of votes. Now you could say that we profit from this by examining the most promising moves more in-depth but this is not true. There's no benefit at all.
Remember the herd voting for 18.Nd4 and 19.Nd4? Or for 28.Qd3? We don't have time to examine every variation as thoroughly as we should because we have so much to do after refuting the <obviously best move> and in the end we have to decide between two promising moves in order to prevent a blunder from winning the votes. There was not a race between 18.Qd2 and 18.Bg5 or 19.Bb6 and 19.Bg5 or 28.h3 and 28.b4. But this would have been of much greater value for our play and the game itself.

Nov-22-06  GufeldStudent: Due to intolerable insults aimed against me, I will no longer contribute to this game. I will be contacting the management since I believe I have behaved within the guidelines but those insulting me have clearly violated them. I have personal experience with suicide that frankly makes my opinion and experience more valid than any of yours.
Nov-22-06  technical draw: There used to be a member here called Mr. Niceguy. I think we need him now.
Nov-22-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: ** Summary of 28. h3 **

There were many lines posted regarding h3, and all looked good for White. There were few areas we felt Black could surprise us, and that has to always be a consideration. The Rybka lines all rated h3 as one of the 2 strongest moves, along with b4. b4 was considered more speculative, and with many more variations.

Some things h3 does:
Eliminates the back rank weakness.
Gives the King an escape square.
Allows the f1 Rook into the game as an offensive piece. Slowly strengthens our position while waiting for GMAN to make some difficult choices.

Nov-22-06  whiteshark: <Dom>
<It occurred to me that humans follow a sequential if-then threat-based logic. >

sometimes I'm even missing 'sequential' and more often 'logic' from some of our teammembers

Nov-22-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  chancho: <GufeldStudent> Relax dude, you already made your sentiments known in the Gilbert page. Yes, you have been insulted. But coming to this page, and calling people despicable is no better. Just forget about it.
Nov-22-06  GufeldStudent: How do I contact the management to complain?
Nov-22-06  Willem Wallekers: Willem Wallekers: Oh please dear <GufeldStudent>, don't leave us now we need you so much, there are so many of us who still love you, (only jesting for a little, you are on my favorites list which isn't very long).
Nov-22-06  Willem Wallekers: <GufeldStudent: How do I contact the management to complain?> Try Blow the whistle in the lower right corner. :)
Nov-22-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: <Whiteshark> - <sometimes I'm even missing 'sequential' and more often 'logic' from some of our teammembers>

Ehhh, yes.

Did something just happen? Or was that someplace else that I'd rather not know about?

Nov-22-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: <I'm gonna go out on a limb here and predict that next time GMAN sends us a note he'll congratulate us on picking 28.h3.>

I agree. I think he'll come back with something along the lines of "Rac8 was a dual purpose move. It continued my development, and gave the White team a chance to go very wrong by taking a pawn." Rybka is a very low scoring engine, and continues to have us over .30 On top of that, we have more space, the b pawn sac, and that annoying pawn sitting on f5 and exchanged at our leisure, three points I suspect Rybka is underevaluating. GMAN can't be happy with his position.

Nov-22-06
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: We've had in mind the slow line, h3, Kh2, (Which?)Rf2 for a week now. Until someone provides some strong analysis, I see no reason to change our plans. I feel the b4 plan didn't gain more footing because a majority of people are still on board that plan.
Nov-22-06  mack: <Ohio>

You've cheered me up no end. What a nice and positive evaluation of the current position.

Nov-22-06  RookFile: <whiteshark: Yes, with the idea of trippling on the h-file with Qh6 !!!>

You have an understanding of chess, of a very high order!

Nov-22-06  Archives: <How do I contact the management to complain?>

Cool, this is just like watching "Days of our Lives"!

Next thing we know, DomDaniel will turn out to be possessed by a succubus and his sinister plan to undermine the World's efforts against GMAN will be revealed.

Meanwhile, the endless debate of whether Kasparov or Fischer was the greater player will continue, with more reinforcement sock puppet accounts being called into action (by both sides!)

Nov-22-06  noctiferus: < Gufeld>
Hey, please dont'leave us
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