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| Dec-05-02 |
| PVS: <I like to play through games by both Fischer and Tal.> So do I. I suggest at some point you add My 60 Memorable Games by Bobby Fischer and The Life and Games of Mikhail Tal to your library. The Tal book is more readable and I would try that one first. |
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| Feb-15-03 |
| siimens: sept-oct 1940 Soviet championship was held in Moscow, Keres 4th, Botvinnik 6th (won by Bondarevky, 2nd Lilienthal also 13,5 pts)Botvinnik-Keres ended with a tie,
Then half a year later so-called "absolute championship" took place in Moscow for some reason(initiated by Botvinnik), top 6 of the previous tournament played 4 rounds (20 games)
Botvinnik won, Keres 2nd 2,5 pts behind |
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| Feb-25-03 |
| kostich in time: Fischer may be a paranoid schizophrenic, but we must remember that even paranoid schizos have moments of awareness..He probably exaggerates the degree to which the Russians prearrange games,but this game has a very ripe smell to it...Keres folds all too easily...but then again, even great masters can play like Patzers on occasion. The whole "absolute Championship" of the USSR was designed to be a glorious Botvinnik triumph |
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Feb-26-03
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| ughaibu: Recently someone pointed out that there are Nimzo-indian games in the "Fischer variation" played before Fischer was born, has Noa been born yet? |
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Feb-26-03
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| Honza Cervenka: Is there any serious evidence that this game was prearranged? If it exists, I don't know it. The game doesn't look extremely suspicious to me. I think it's a typical accident when one player falls into prepared variation of his opponent. Botvinnik undoubtedly analysed all variation heavily after his games with Kotov and Mikenas. After 8.0-0-0 played by Mikenas he found an improvement for black: to play 8...Bxc3 9.Qxc3 g5 10.Bg3 cxd4 11.Qxd4 Nc6 winning an important tempo instead of 8...0-0 which Botvinnik used in the game with Mikenas. According to Botvinnik to his big regret exactly this line was mentioned in a commentary of any game played in Moscow team championship, which was published in the magazine "64" in january of 1941. But Keres, who knew well Botvinnik's game with Mikenas, missed it. It is not so strange or unlikely, what probably every top player can confirm from his own experience.:-) |
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| Sep-07-03 |
| francescog: Surely white has lost, but after 22 ... Nb4 there is no check, so it should not read 22 ... Nb4+ .
In any case, an excellent game by Botvinnik and a less than excellent by Keres (why castling and not developing, just to name a single move which I dislike...) |
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| Nov-14-04 |
| kostich in time: I really should comment on Ughaibus consistent denigration of Fischer..look at the margins by which he won between 1970 and 1972,and look at the QUALITY of the games he played.If you look at the number of best gamesFischer had in the Informant between 1966 and 1972, you simply have to conclude he was one of the all-time greats. |
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| Nov-14-04 |
| drukenknight: At times, yes he seemed as strong as anybody, but these times were really fleeting. You cant say that the young Bobby Fischer was the best in the world between say 1958 and 1962, you cant the Russians were better. He then drops out of competition for awhile. His games in 1966 are pretty good but he still cant beat spassky. The interzonal in 1967, okay yes he is at the top of his game, but this lasts for how long? 2 weeks? Then he runs off again. The run up in 1971-72 does not draw any conclusions to me. The Palma tourney yeah he's very very good. THe Taimanov match, this is a joke, Taim. only got there by a fixed loss by Matalovich. The Larsen match, not sure, havent studied it. The Petrosian match, this is the great one, the lopsided score only comes after Tiger lost game 7 or whatever it was. THat match was about as even as any two people ever played, until he broke him. THen the Spassky match. Spassky is not the same player, the moves in this match are open to serious question as is SPassky's actual willingness to fight. THen Bobby disappears again. Think about that. ALekhine plays the greatest players in the world every week. He shows up at tournaments every month. Every day almost someone is trying to knock him off. Every tournament someone has a new opening trick to play on him. He takes on everyone every week for 25 or 30 years. COntrast Fischer. He studies everybody's openings, memorizes all their games, shows up for one FIDE cycle. THen he runs off before anyone can study his games. Clearly it matters how often you put your reputation and your openings on the line. When Kasparov lost to big blue, everybody said that Gary was at disadvantage because blue got to study his games while Gary had no ability to look at Big Blue's games. Everyone said this at the time, and no one can really dispute the veracity of that claim. How come no one applies the same analysis to Bobby? |
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Nov-14-04
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| iron maiden: <drukenknight> Whether or not you believe all the gossip about how Taimanov bought his way into the Candidates, the fact remains that he was rated in the top 10 at the time of his match with Fischer, and wasn't the "joke" that Fischer's detractors have him pinned for. Petrosian, at least for the first five games, put up more of a fight than anyone else in that WC cycle did, including Spassky. But starting with the sixth game Fischer was very clearly the superior player. If you think that this was because Petrosian was "broken," consider: How hard must it have been for Fischer after losing the second game and having his year-long winning streak come to an end? A lesser player might well have broken right then and lost the match. |
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Nov-14-04
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| Calli: Botvinnik's big advantage in this tourney was his preparation. His favored status allowed him better preparation than the other competitors. For example, I think Bxc3 was Simagin's idea. Keres was beaten by opening preparation, not by throwing the game. |
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Nov-15-04
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| euripides: From move 8 onwards, I count only two moves that aren't direct threats -it's a tremendous attacking game. It's Botvinnik's misfortune that some of his finest games have been subject to suspicion. |
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| Nov-17-04 |
| drukenknight: "...the fact remains that he was rated in the top 10 at the time of his match with Fischer" Whatever. This simply is more evidence that the rating system is a joke as well. Look at the games they played in 1971, then tell us what you think. |
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Nov-18-04
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| iron maiden: DK: I had already looked over the Fischer-Taimanov games, and, while I agree that Taimanov's play was somewhat lacking, it would have to have been for him to lose 6-0. One thing I've noticed is that his play got worse and worse with every game. Even if you disagree with the rating system, how overrated could Taimanov have possibly been? Instead of top-10, was he maybe 16th? 17th? Is that really that much less impressive? |
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| Nov-19-04 |
| drukenknight: It is iron. Think of Capablanca beating Chajes, MIeses, Yates, people like that. You still dont get it? Go to your chess club. Look at the best player(s) they always wipe out the guys who are just a notch below them. It is no big deal. Do you want to argue this some more? Why dont we analyze the Larsen/Fischer match? It's new ground for me. Or we could just jump to Fischer/Spassky game 5, It's a nimzo indian. On second thought: Dr. Zaius: "I warn you Taylor, dont go to the Forbidden City. You might not like what you find there. |
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Nov-19-04
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| iron maiden: <DK> I was thinking more along the lines of Kasparov beating Gelfand, Dreev, people like that. Sure Capa could have taken Yates or Mieses...but could he have taken them 6-0? And I've looked at Fischer-Spassky Game 5; it was one of the worst blunders of Spassky's career. But in a match that long you're likely to have at least one or two moves like that. Fischer's play was very good, even if Spassky's was very bad. Larsen, in his match with Fischer, was on more than one occasion the victim of his own aggression. In a couple games near the end, if memory serves, he threw away draws when he played on for wins. But by that point he HAD to win in order to stay in the match, and it was Fischer's playing strength that won the first three or four games and put him in that position. Also before we go any further I would like to say that I am not obsessed with Fischer; if you check my profile you'll find that I think that both Lasker and Kasparov were greater, considering how long they stayed on top. I'm very objective when it comes to evaluating Fischer's play, but the same goes for anyone else's. If we go through Capablanca's match with Lasker, for example, since it's generally regarded as being one of the highlights of Capa's prime, we could easily find a few half-points that Lasker shouldn't have dropped. |
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| Nov-19-04 |
| drukenknight: On your first pt. A: I dont follow modern day chess, so I really dont know much about these guys! (ref: Dreev, etc.) >>> if memory serves, he threw away draws when he played on for wins. But by that point he HAD to win in order to stay in the match.... "But," "But" "But."
You know, you left out the biggest but of them all.
THE SAME FREAKIN REASONING APPLIES TO TAIMANOV/FISCHER!! Dammit. So why do you make a big deal out of a 6-0 score vs. a)player A not on same level as player B and b) forced to gamble or go for broke hence play risky... Duh, this is a no brainer formula for running up the score. There was a famous game in the NFL, where the Bears won 73-0. And there were several turnovers, long runs, right in the first couple possessions. It was like 21-0 in the first 5 minutes. So after the game,the reporter asks the losing coach: "What if McAnally had run that one in for a TD, that got called back?" Thinking that he the ace reporter had really stumbled onto a nice angle for the times... Coach shot back: "Yeah, th score would have only been 73-7!" Ha. ha funny.
The pt. being 1) Dont stick microphones in the faces of players coming right off field after theyve lost. 2) There was a real pt in there somewhere about running up the score and you use ignore this argument first time and ues it for your advantage for Larsen argument. |
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Dec-15-05
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| meloncio: According to Botvinnik (Selected Games, vol I, Spanish edition) and Kasparov (OMGP, vol. II, Spanish edition), Keres resigned after 22... Nb4. This game reminds to me Chigorin vs Janowski, 1895 . It's imposible to explain some moves of Chigorin and Keres, so illogical and weak they look. Were they sick, or anything else? |
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Dec-15-05
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| keypusher: <meloncio> I think Chigorin's play in that game was an order of magnitude worse than Keres' play here, though Keres certainly did not play well. Through 8 0-0-0 this had all been played before, and Mikenas had beaten Botvinnik from here in 1940. Botvinnik's critical improvement was 8...Bxc3! After than Keres does not get to make a move of his own choosing until move 13. Maybe 13 e3 isn't best, but what do you suggest? After 13 Kb1 Bf5+ 14 Ka1 white is far behind in development. After 14...Qd7 white is completely lost -- it hardly matters what he does after that. I think he goes down relatively easily, but that happened to Keres sometimes. With Chigorin I think it was pure nerves -- it was the next to last round, and he could have practically assured himself first place with a victory. |
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Dec-15-05
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| Boomie: I hope no one is offended if I insert some comments about this game. 8. dxc5 leads to a lively variation which is clearly better than 8. O-O-O. 8. dxc5 g5 9. Bg3 Ne4 10. Bxb8
(10. Be5 O-O 11. a3 Bxc3+ 12. Bxc3 Bf5 13. Qb3 Na6 14. Rd1 Naxc5 15. Qxd5 Nxc3 16. bxc3 Qa5=) 10...Bxc3+ 11. bxc3 Rxb8 12. e3 O-O 13. Nf3 Qe7 14. Bd3 Nxc5 15. O-O Nxd3 16. Qxd3  (0.33/13) |
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Nov-11-06
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| Calli: "Keres does not get to make a move of his own choosing until move 13" Its been pointed out that 11.Qd3! which stops Bf5 and allows White to recapture later with Nf3 and Nxd4 would keep Keres in the game. |
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| Jan-14-07 |
| thathwamasi: <Chessgames.com> Shouldn't the last move read Nc2# ?? Isnt it a checkmate? |
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Jul-11-09
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| Ulhumbrus: After 8 0-0-0 Black will manage to get his Qb on to the b1-h7 diagonal before White can get his King into safety by Kb1. |
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Aug-02-09
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| Knight13: This game fit this theme of attack well: Swarm your pieces around your opponent's king so that you have more pieces than his. |
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| Sep-09-09 |
| vartanovich: i like Botvinnik's scientific way of treating complicated positions.i think it is also an intergral part of Kasparov's play,but Kasparov was in his own class.take a peep on the 15th game of the Karpov,Kasparov 1985 World Championship in Moscow. |
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| Sep-10-09 |
| vartanovich: taking a look on the 15th game of Karpov-Kasparov,1985 world championship,the challenger tied down the champion's pieces on the 2nd rank.Karpov was just helpless.to steal space and get a breather he had to lose material and of course the game.Kasparov is like the boar constrictor he never releases his prey from his jaws,i wonder if Anand would be smiling if Garry was still playing. |
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