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Boris Gelfand vs Valery Salov
Madrid (1996), Madrid ESP, rd 2, May-09
Queen's Gambit Accepted: Alekhine Defense (D22)  ·  1-0
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Given 8 times; par: 34 [what's this?]

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sac: 25.Rd7 PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·  Later Kibitzing>
May-04-12  Memethecat: Yes, 27...Qd8 looks pretty solid. Maybe someone that enjoys playing with engines can try & refute it, but I've tried lots of moves on chess viewer & cant find anything significant for white.
May-04-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  CHESSTTCAMPS: White is down a pawn, but black suffers from an uncastled king with a rook trapped out of play. This make the back rank and both rooks vulnerable, suggesting additional measures to pressure e6 and undermine Rc8. I waffled between the immediate 25.Rd6 and 25.Bd6, finally choosing

25.Bd6!

The DSB is the better defender, so eliminating it further weakens the back rank, gives the N access to c5, and leaves black an overloaded LSB. Passive defense of the bishop loses material:

A) 25... Re8? 26.Bxe7+ Rxe7 27.Rd8+ Re8 28.Rxe8+ Kxe8 29.Qb8+ wins.

B) 25...Qf6 26.Rxe6! Qxe6 27.Bxe7+ Kg8/e8 28.Bh4 defends e1 and leaves white with B+N vs rook and the BK still in a bad position.

C) 25... Bxd6 26.Rxd6 (threatening Rxe6 winning) Re8 27.Rxa6 and the double threat of Ra8 and Nc5 looks winning. Black can't play 27... Bc8 in view of 28.Rxe8+ Kxe8 29.Qb5+ Bd7 30.Qe2+ winning the BQ.

Maybe I've missed something better - time for review....

May-04-12  goldenbear: Ditto <whiteshark>.
May-04-12  erniecohen: Sigh, another cooked problem. 25. ♖d6 ♖e8 26. ♕c6 ♕g4 27. ♘c5 ♕x♗ 28. ♖d6x♖ ♕d4+ 29. ♔h1 g6 30. ♕c7 ♕d2 31. ♕d7 ♕x♕ 32. ♘xd7+ ♔g7 33. ♖e6e5 ♖c8 34. ♖xe7 leaves white with a better position than the game continuation if Black defends properly with 27...♕d8 28. ♖xe7 ♕x♕ 29. ♖x♕.
May-04-12  DrKurtPhart:

32.Qxe7+ Kxe7 33. Nxf5+ Ke6 34.Nxh6 gxh6 35. ...
White to move...


click for larger view

May-04-12  JG27Pyth: @meme the cat<Yes, 27...Qd8 looks pretty solid. Maybe someone that enjoys playing with engines can try & refute it, but I've tried lots of moves on chess viewer & cant find anything significant for white.>

sevenseaman put a link to the crafty position trainer -- (it's colors reversed) you can try Qd8 against crafty... I played around with it for a while it's pretty interesting. It's definitely better than the text... but calling it solid is a bit much. Crafty gives a convincing demonstration of the superiority of a N+B over R in this position. It's a struggle to get the a-Rook into the game, and by the time you do, Crafty has coordinated his pieces so well, one can't manage any counterplay at all. It's becomes like Napoleon's retreat from Moscow... just because it takes awhile doesn't mean the end is ever in doubt. But I haven't checked the position engine v engine... silcon almost always finds resources that ever elude me.

May-04-12  polarx: Just like Voodoomoves four years ago I thought the line 25. Nc5 Bxc5 26. Qxc8+! Bxc8 27. Rd8# was beautiful. But the white rook on d4 is pinned.
May-04-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: A nice ending...a bit over my head.
May-04-12  Zatrikion: Not quite sure for this:
25.Rd7 Bxd7 (forced. 25 Re8 26.Rxe7 Rxe8 27.Qb8+ Re8 28.Bd6 1-0) 26.Qxd7 Re8
27.Rxe7 Rxe7
28.Qd8+ Re8
29.Bd6+ Qxd6
30.Qxd6+ and Qxa6
Endgame Q+N vs 2R and white have 2 pawns on the queenside. Time to check if that was the best attacking solution.
May-04-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  chrisowen: Like a bird on a wire d7 i nerd finish to free in c6 from whence you

Came shall remain until you are complete again. Venisti bxd7 remanebis qxd7 qb6+ donec kh1 re8 denuo compeltus rxe7 rxe7 a bit 29.bd6 insist qxd6 30.qxd6 all over monsieur.

Inform again low in manage rd6 is the second option devious in break it

Rooke8 well qc6 are you pebbled as hanger nc5 in diagram all for again

g4xf4 undress i put 28.rdxe6 the question you?

May-04-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  chrisowen:


click for larger view

I teach in look it oh b5 jug ears in flick it or qc7 slide in so nit exf5 in tease it rookfe1 wins! Almost face the facts in clink 25.rookd7 it hood in jeez bxd7 going down the line qxd7 in damn it safe in the knowledge ar 26...qb6+ good in danger it amped in kh1 re8 28.rxe7 rxe7 29.bd6 in chafee it grind in qxd6 forced.

May-04-12  rilkefan: <<erniecohen>: Sigh, another cooked problem.>

With stockfish I'm getting 2.5 for the game line at a depth of 29, 2.3 for Rd6 at a depth of 29.

May-04-12  David2009: Gelfand vs Salov, 1996 White 25?

25.Rd6 GOOT! The immediate threat is 26.Rdxe6 and if 25...Re8 26.Qc6 keeps up the pressure. Time to check:
====


click for larger view

White played 25.Rd7 which is much stronger. Time to set the position up in Crafty End Game Trainer (interactive link: http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t... My line 25.Rd6 fails to 25...Re8 26.Qc6 Qg4 etc. The main line is 25.Rd7 Bxd7 26.Qxd7 Qb6+ 27.Kh1 Qd8 when the EGT defends with 28.Rxe7 Qxd7 29.Rxd7 h5. Using <sevenseaman>'s excellent interactive link http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t... to the colours-reversed position to suggest White moves (i.e. Crafty vs Crafty), the game could continue 30.Nd4 Ke8 31.Rd6 Rd8 32.Rxd8+ Kxd8 33.Nxf5 g6 34.Ne3 Kd7 35.Kg1 Ke6 36.b3 Rd8 37.Nc4 Kf5 to reach (White to play)


click for larger view

White is gradually getting on top but there is a lot of life left in Black's position.

May-04-12  CTOJAH: <DrKurtPhart>
35.Kg1 ...leads to wining position/endgame for white.
May-04-12  hugogomes: I saw 25.Rd6 which is also good.
May-04-12  zakkzheng: I guess Valery Salov was hoping for back rank checkmate with Re1#
May-04-12  Jambow: Considered rook d7 just couldn't bring it home, oh well tough position and credit to Gelfand.
May-04-12  Abdel Irada: @<memethecat>: You're right; I'm guilty of insufficient specificity. To be accurate, I should have explicitly referred to 26. ...♕b6+ *followed by* 27. ...♕d8. I had thought that apparent by inference, but I should know better than to make such an assumption. Good catch.
May-04-12  erniecohen: <<rilkefan>: <<erniecohen>: Sigh, another cooked problem.> With stockfish I'm getting 2.5 for the game line at a depth of 29, 2.3 for Rd6 at a depth of 29.>

Are you using the gameline with 27...♕d8? There's no way you can judge that as 2.5.

May-04-12  King Death: < erniecohen: Are you using the gameline with 27...Qd8? There's no way you can judge that as 2.5.>

Who cares if it's +2.5 or +12 or -600 according to some engine? This ending after 28.Re7 Qd7 29.Rd7 is obviously much better for White if not clearly winning and it's all that matters if you're as strong as you claim to be. It helps to move the pieces around some and figure out what's going on instead of plugging every position into an engine.

May-04-12  erniecohen: <King Death> My claim was that 25. ♖d6 is stronger than 25. ♖d7. <rilkefan> claimed that 25. ♖d7 is leading to a better Stockfish evaluation. Here are the two positions (each with Black to play): after ♖d6 -


click for larger view

and after ♖d7 -


click for larger view

Are you telling me that you think that the second position is better for White than the first, even though the first he has a ♖ instead of a ♗? If not, what's you're problem?

My guess was that <rilkefan> had taken his evaluation at the end of the game, after Black had misdefended.

May-05-12  Patriot: I figured 25.Rd7 Bxd7 26.Qxd7 Re8 27.Rxe7 Rxe7 28.Qd8+ Re8 29.Be6+ Qxe6 30.Qxe6+ . I didn't even consider 26...Qb6+.
May-05-12  rilkefan: <Are you using the gameline with 27...Qd8? There's no way you can judge that as 2.5.>

Take it up with stockfish, it's a bit stronger than I am. You can see my inferred reasoning for the strength of white's position in the ...Qd8 line above.

May-05-12  TheBish: <Patriot> Exactly the same for me! Missed 26...Qb6+, but saw the winning sequence. Except that I had 29. Bd6+, not 29. Be6+ (which isn't possible).
Jan-24-14  dusk: <Memethecat> 27... Qd8 28. Rxe7 Qxe8 29. Bd6
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