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| Oct-13-09 | | VincentL: No !!! It's black to play !
Then it must be 38....Bc3+
39. Qxc3 a5+ and the white king must take one of the pawns (a4/b4) resulting in the loss of the queen. This seems more like a puzzle. |
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| Oct-13-09 | | jsheedy: 38...Bc3+, 39. QxB, a5+ wins the Queen after K takes a or b pawn. |
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Oct-13-09
 | | YouRang: I feel a little dumb about taking so long to see it. I mean, the first moves I looked at were the check moves: (1) a5+ and (2) Bc3+. So why did it take me so long to consider using them BOTH?! |
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| Oct-13-09 | | mworld: < TheTamale: <fyad reject: gave up after 20 mins. considered and discarded the correct move because i couldnt find the a5 continuation even though i had previously considered a5 independently. dont understand whats wrong with me>
That was EXACTLY what happened to me. So at least you're not alone. :-)
>
exact same here! Amazing how this is the case for a lot of us. I even decided a5 (first) was probably the right move because of the threat of losing the queen if white plays kxa5 ...if only i could have connected the dots and reorganized the move order. I can't believe i looked at bc3+ as well and still didn't connect the dots. Its odd, but something about this position made it so hard to see this simple combination. |
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Oct-13-09
 | | Patriot: For those wondering why you considered 38...Bc3+ and dismissed it quickly because of 39.Qxc3: This is what my coach calls a "quiescence error" which essentially means stopping your analysis before the position becomes "quiet". It is failing to consider further checks, captures, and threats. An example is thinking QxQ wins a queen without seeing that on the next move, PxQ wins it back. But I think the other issue is failing to see there's a "removal of the guard" after 39.Qxc3 (39...a5+). This tactic is one of the most common tactical themes and is worth it's weight in gold to practice. |
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Oct-13-09
| | YouRang: <Patriot><This is what my coach calls a "quiescence error" which essentially means stopping your analysis before the position becomes "quiet".> I am myself an expert on this type of error. (Making them, that is.) |
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| Oct-13-09 | | doubledrooks: Black wins material with 38...Bc3+ 39. Qxc3 a5+ (deflecting the king from protecting the queen) 40. Kxb5 Qxc3. |
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Oct-13-09
 | | gawain: Oh, a nice deflection. First the White queen will be lured into the vulnerable spot with Bc3+. She must capture. Then a5+ deflects the King away. The queen falls. |
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Oct-13-09
 | | playground player: Won't the trap work equally well if Black plays a5 first? Or is that too bloody obvious? |
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| Oct-13-09 | | Riverbeast: <Won't the trap work equally well if Black plays a5 first?> If ..a5 first, white plays Kxb5, and the king is dancing, bobbing, and weaving..... And black would end up in last place |
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Oct-13-09
 | | beenthere240: If black plays 38....a5+ first, white's king simply takes the b pawn and the fork evaporates. That's why the move order is critical. |
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Oct-13-09
 | | Marmot PFL: A Sicilian classic. Black (Kramnik) rejects the easy draw on move 26 and wins a brilliant game. A shame that he now plays mainly the Petroff. |
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Oct-13-09
 | | Check It Out: This one took me awhile. I noticed first the possibility of 38...Bc3+ but the square is double protected. Then I saw 38...a5+ but that seemed to fail to 39.Kxb5. Then I looked at 38...Rxc5 39.Kxc5 but couldn't spot any forcing continuations. Just before I gave up I thought, one more looksy. Then I saw it: Give the 38...Bc3+ then 39.Qxc3 a5+! and the queen is toast. |
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| Oct-13-09 | | muralman: My son got this one first rather quickly, after I discovered the bishop move. Pawns are powerful agents. I tend to forget that. |
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| Oct-13-09 | | sataranj: I cant believe topalov actually waited till kramnik made 39.a5+ |
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Oct-13-09
 | | lost in space: <<YouRang:> I feel a little dumb about taking so long to see it. I mean, the first moves I looked at were the check moves: (1) a5+ and (2) Bc3+.
So why did it take me so long to consider using them BOTH?! You are not alone :-) |
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| Oct-13-09 | | Riverbeast: <I cant believe topalov actually waited till kramnik made 39.a5+ > That was move 39, near the time control.....Maybe time was low, and the final moves were blitzed out? Or maybe Topalov was hoping Kramnik would touch the wrong piece :-) |
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| Oct-13-09 | | WhiteRook48: 38...Rxc5?!?! |
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Oct-13-09
 | | Jimfromprovidence: It would have been good, as kibitzers from earlier days have pointed out, if white had played 38 Bxb5+ instead.
click for larger view Now after 38...axb5 39 Qxg3 Qc3+ 40 Qxc3 Bxc3+ 41 Kxb5 Bxa1 42 Nxa1 it's more or less an even game. 
click for larger view |
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| Oct-13-09 | | SamAtoms1980: 38 ... Bc3+ 39 Qxc3 a5+ 40 Kxb5 Qxc3.
White now has two bishops for a queen and a pawn ---- a pawn which is ready to run down the board. "Drawnik" takes the black pieces and gets more than a draw. |
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| Oct-13-09 | | newzild: This took me longer than it should have for a Tuesday - about three minutes. Like many other posters, I saw the idea 38...a5+ 39.Kxa5 Bc3+ winning the queen, but couldn't find anything decent after 39.Kxb5. Once again, it came down to move order. By the way, this game is regarded as something of a classic. |
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Oct-13-09
 | | Eisenheim: This one came right away to me and I was amused and mused that VT's pre-rybka program must've been very bugged. |
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| Oct-13-09 | | tivrfoa: <Patriot: For those wondering why you considered 38...Bc3+ and dismissed it quickly because of 39.Qxc3:
This is what my coach calls a "quiescence error"...> Nice. Here's a link about this: http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heism... |
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| Oct-16-09 | | Formula7: I considered 38...Bc3+ right away but it took me a while to see that after 39...a5+ 40.Kxb5 the queen is hanging. |
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Feb-20-11
 | | notyetagm: Game Collection: EXCHANGE ON THE LOOSE SQUARE: THEN NA++,ND-- Topalov vs Kramnik, 1995 38 - Bg7-c3+! creates loose c3-queen, 39 - a6-a5+ removes guard |
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sac: 18...Nxg3