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Evgeny Vladimirov vs Georgy Tadzhikanovich Agzamov
USSR (1977)
King's Indian Attack: Sicilian Variation (A08)  ·  1-0
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jan-19-07  Minty: <pittpanther: A follow up to < epiph: no, ng6 doesn't work, because I think one of the key ideas behind ne6 is that it threatens the following beautiful combination: 30...Rxg7+ 31Rxg7 Qxh6+!! 32Kxh6 Bxf7 mates > What if black does not play 32 Kxh6 but rather plays Kg8? Can black weather the storm?>

32...Bxf7 is not even mate, as the black king escapes via g5.

Forgive me if this is full of errors, as I haven't bothered to check it on a board, but rather than 30. Rxg7, the move I think is 30. Nxg7!, after which 30... Rxg7 31. Qxh6+!, and if black tries to decline with 31... Kg8, white forces him to take the queen with 32. Qh8+!! Kxh8 33. Bxf7+ Rh7 34. Rg8#

Jan-19-07  Minty: Actually, I see the flaw in that already: Namely, Rxh6. Plus the knight covers g5.

Start again...

Jan-19-07  Silverstrike: I found 29.Ne6 and stopped calculating after 30...Qxe6.
Jan-19-07  Minty: Okay, after 30. Rxg7+ Rxg7 31. Qxh6+ Kg8, 32. f6 is winning for white.

Jan-19-07  Fisheremon: <LoveThatJoker: <Fisheremon: <ReikiMaster: <RandomVisitor: 30...fxe6 might hold on a while longer for Black.> Then 31.c3 wins Na2. If 31...Ba4 then 32.Bg6+ Kh8 33.Rxh6+ returns to the main theme.> 30...fxe6 31.Bxe8 Rxe8 32.Rhg3 Rg8 33.Rg6 with winning attack.> Interesting, Fisheremon. I can see the attack in this line if it is followed up by 34. Qg2 With the immediate threat of 35. Rxh6+!> Right, so Black could resist 33...Qc7 34.Rxe6 Qf7 35.Re5 b6 36.Rf5 Qe6 37.Qf4 g5 38.Qg3 Nb4 39.Rgf1 Rg7 40.Rf6

<P.S. Also if after 30...fxe6 31. Bxe8 Rxe8 32. Rhg3 g5 33. h4 is strong.> It's interesting to note that after 33...Qf4 34.Qxf4 gxf4 35.Rg7+ Kh8 36.R1g6 a mate's still inevitable for Black.

Jan-19-07  LoveThatJoker: < Minty: <pittpanther: A follow up to < epiph: no, ng6 doesn't work, because I think one of the key ideas behind ne6 is that it threatens the following beautiful combination: 30...Rxg7+ 31Rxg7 Qxh6+!! 32Kxh6 Bxf7 mates > What if black does not play 32 Kxh6 but rather plays Kg8? Can black weather the storm?> 32...Bxf7 is not even mate, as the black king escapes via g5.

Forgive me if this is full of errors, as I haven't bothered to check it on a board, but rather than 30. Rxg7, the move I think is 30. Nxg7!, after which 30... Rxg7 31. Qxh6+!, and if black tries to decline with 31... Kg8, white forces him to take the queen with 32. Qh8+!! Kxh8 33. Bxf7+ Rh7 34. Rg8#

Jan-19-07 Minty: Actually, I see the flaw in that already: Namely, Rxh6. Plus the knight covers g5. Start again...>

Ok...Which is the first move you are talking about the text or 29. Ng6?

29. Ne6 is the winning move: No bones about it. The mating line after 29...fxe6 is 30. Bg6+ Bxg6 (30...Kh8 31. Rxh6+ gxh6 32. Qxh6#) 31. fxg6+ Kh8 32. Rxh6+ gxh6 33. Qxh6#

The beautiful thing about 29. Ne6!! is that it is at once both a clearance and - if Black accepts the White's offfer leading towards the quickest mate; i.e, 29...fxe6 - a line-closing Sacrifice.

29. Ne6!! is a remarkable example of Chess as Art, gentlemen.

LTJ

Jan-19-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  plang: I knew Agzamov died young but I had not seen the story before.
Jan-19-07  Minty: <LoveThatJoker: Ok...Which is the first move you are talking about the text or 29. Ng6?>

Well, obviously 29. Ne6, as both 30. Nxg7 and 30. Rxg7 are impossible after 29. Ng6.

Jan-19-07  LoveThatJoker: <Fisheremon: Right, so Black could resist 33...Qc7 34.Rxe6 Qf7 35.Re5 b6 36.Rf5 Qe6 37.Qf4 g5 38.Qg3 Nb4 39.Rgf1 Rg7 40.Rf6>

I guess it could be simply called a matter of style at this point Fisheremon.

Your conception of an attack after <30...fxe6 31.Bxe8 Rxe8 32.Rhg3 Rg8 33.Rg6 with winning attack.> is top notch, man. However do keep in mind that in this line another line worth considering would indeed be 32...Re7 as opposed to 32...Rg8.

However, going back to this one (Rook being on g8) <33...Qc7 34.Rxe6 Qf7 35.Re5 b6 36.Rf5 Qe6 37.Qf4 g5 38.Qg3 Nb4 39.Rgf1 Rg7 40.Rf6> if 33...Qc7 I would play it like so: 34. Qg2 Qf7 35. Qg4 Nb4(probably best) 36. e5! (or the more wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am 36. Qh5 which still works) 36...Nd5 37. Qe4 Nf6 38. exf6 [Else, 38. Rxg7++!? Kh8 39. Rxf7 Nxe4 (best) 40. Rxg8+ Kxg8 41. Rxc7 with a winning endgame] 38...

This PC is going to shut down soon, I will continue my analysis of your line in a sec.

LTJ

Jan-19-07  LoveThatJoker: 38...well, and truly it is resignation time for Black.

I mean: 38...Anything but Kh8 39. Rxg7++ Kh8 40. Qh7#

38...Kh8 39. fxg7+ Rxg7 (39...Kh7 40. Rf6+ and mate in one) 40. Rxg7 1-0

That is why Fisheremon, I do think that here <30...fxe6 31.Bxe8 Rxe8 32.Rhg3 Rg8 33.Rg6> 32...Re7 is worth considering.

LTJ

Jan-19-07  LoveThatJoker: <Minty: <LoveThatJoker: Ok...Which is the first move you are talking about the text or 29. Ng6?> Well, obviously 29. Ne6, as both 30. Nxg7 and 30. Rxg7 are impossible after 29. Ng6.>

Alright, Minty, then again here is the mating line, dude:

29. Ne6 is the winning move: No bones about it. The mating line after 29...fxe6 is 30. Bg6+ Bxg6 (30...Kh8 31. Rxh6+ gxh6 32. Qxh6#) 31. fxg6+ Kh8 32. Rxh6+ gxh6 33. Qxh6#

LTJ

Jan-19-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: I wish I could have seen this one-it was a sharp attack by white. I did know that the focal point would by g6,but had NO idea how to get there.
Jan-19-07  Fisheremon: <LoveThatJoker:...However, going back to this one (Rook being on g8) <33...Qc7 34.Rxe6 Qf7 35.Re5 b6 36.Rf5 Qe6 37.Qf4 g5 38.Qg3 Nb4 39.Rgf1 Rg7 40.Rf6> if 33...Qc7 I would play it like so: 34. Qg2 Qf7 35. Qg4 Nb4(probably best) 36. e5! (or the more wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am 36. Qh5 which still works) 36...Nd5 37. Qe4 Nf6 38. exf6 [Else, 38. Rxg7++!? Kh8 39. Rxf7 Nxe4 (best) 40. Rxg8+ Kxg8 41. Rxc7 with a winning endgame] 38...

38...well, and truly it is resignation time for Black.

I mean: 38...Anything but Kh8 39. Rxg7++ Kh8 40. Qh7#

38...Kh8 39. fxg7+ Rxg7 (39...Kh7 40. Rf6+ and mate in one) 40. Rxg7 1-0>

In your line after 37...Kh8 Black's alright. Also 36...Nd5 not the best (because 37...Rxe6) 36...Nxc2. Better in your line 36.Qh5 with minimal advantage, since Black Knight could come soon to e3.

<That is why Fisheremon, I do think that here <30...fxe6 31.Bxe8 Rxe8 32.Rhg3 Rg8 33.Rg6> 32...Re7 is worth considering.> Yes, I analyzed this line also. Let me produce a quite interesting variation: 32...Re7 33.Rg6 Rf7 34.Qg2 Kg8 35.Rxh6 Kf8 36.Rg6 Nb4 37.Qh3 Qf4 38.Rxe6 (Qze6 to a winning endgame) Qf3+ 39.Qxf3 Rxf3 40.Rb6 Nxc2 41.Rxb7 Rxd3 42.Rgxg7 Ne3 43.h4 and mate soon.

Jan-19-07  Themofro: Nice combination, i didn't see it as i was preoccupied with the line of 29. Bg6+ black captures however don't think it matters, 30. Rxh6+ Kxh6
31. Nxg6+ king moves and then
32. Nxe5.

What am i missing, why would't that line work?

Jan-19-07  LoveThatJoker: <Fisheremon: In your line after 37...Kh8 Black's alright. Also 36...Nd5 not the best (because 37...Rxe6) 36...Nxc2. Better in your line 36.Qh5 with minimal advantage, since Black Knight could come soon to e3.> Thank Fisheremon to find something wrong in my analysis.

Thank goodness for you, dude. You keep me real. Alright, now, check this out.

Granted the 36. e5!? line is speculative considering the relatively strong defence of 37...Kh8.

However MY - note MY - suggestion of 36. Qh5 is actually better as you rightfully point out. But it is not a minimal advantage move, dude. It is actually quite strong.

What would you play to 36. Qh5?

LTJ

P.S. <Let me produce a quite interesting variation: 32...Re7 33.Rg6 Rf7 34.Qg2 Kg8 35.Rxh6 Kf8 36.Rg6 Nb4 37.Qh3 Qf4 38.Rxe6 (Qze6 to a winning endgame) Qf3+ 39.Qxf3 Rxf3 40.Rb6 Nxc2 41.Rxb7 Rxd3 42.Rgxg7 Ne3 43.h4 and mate soon.>

33...Rf7? Already looks like a butthole variation there, Fisheremon. Why on earth would Black waste time like that when the Q on e5 and R on e7 for the moment due an adequate job of protecting the King.

Of course, I see the point of Rf7. But it is a poor move considering the dire situation Black is in.

i.e., In the midst of getting mated!

Also, <36...Nd5 not the best (because 37...Rxe6) 36...Nxc2.>

I never said that 36...Nd5 was best, I said that 35...Nb4 was PROBABLY best. And what?! 37...Rxe6 is completely heroic, Fisheremon, seeing as how the Black rook is on g8 on this line.

Finally for my above question to you - before the P.S. - Keep in mind that Black's Knight is still on b4.

So pull out your board and shuffle the pieces around until you find something and then get back to me.

Jan-19-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  playground player: Oh, boy, I found Ne6: give me a C+ for art. Wouldn't have found that move, not so long ago. Thank you, CG.com.
Jan-19-07  mig55: The losing move was 27...Rd6...Better was a4 or Nb4
Jan-19-07  Brettwith2ts: Man, I wasn't even CLOSE! I was usin', like bishops and stuff.
Jan-20-07  Fisheremon: <LoveThatJoker: <Fisheremon: In your line after 37...Kh8 Black's alright. Also 36...Nd5 not the best (because 37...Rxe6) 36...Nxc2. Better in your line 36.Qh5 with minimal advantage, since Black Knight could come soon to e3.> Thank Fisheremon to find something wrong in my analysis. Thank goodness for you, dude. You keep me real. Alright, now, check this out. Granted the 36. e5!? line is speculative considering the relatively strong defence of 37...Kh8. However MY - note MY - suggestion of 36. Qh5 is actually better as you rightfully point out. But it is not a minimal advantage move, dude. It is actually quite strong. What would you play to 36. Qh5?> perhaps the best is 36...Qf8 37.Rxe6 (you could take pawn e6 with tempo earlier), now Black's knight closer to the center, e.g. 37...Nxc2 38.Rb6 Ne3 and quite likely to a Rook endgame with a pawn up for White.

P.S. <Let me produce a quite interesting variation: 32...Re7 33.Rg6 Rf7 34.Qg2 Kg8 35.Rxh6 Kf8 36.Rg6 Nb4 37.Qh3 Qf4 38.Rxe6 (Qze6 to a winning endgame) Qf3+ 39.Qxf3 Rxf3 40.Rb6 Nxc2 41.Rxb7 Rxd3 42.Rgxg7 Ne3 43.h4 and mate soon.>

33...Rf7? Already looks like a butthole variation there, Fisheremon. Why on earth would Black waste time like that when the Q on e5 and R on e7 for the moment due an adequate job of protecting the King.> That was the best variation with 32...Re7.

<I never said that 36...Nd5 was best, I said that 35...Nb4 was PROBABLY best. And what?! 37...Rxe6 is completely heroic, Fisheremon, seeing as how the Black rook is on g8 on this line.> 35...Nb4 actually was the best in that position, but next 36...Nxc2 better than 36...Nd5 (earning a pawn and with next Ne3). So let say after 36...Nxc2 37.Rxe6 Kh8 38.Qg6 Qf3+ 39.Qg2 Qxg2+ 40.Kxg2 Nb4 41.Rd1 Rf8 =

Jan-20-07  LoveThatJoker: Fisheremon, if one thing we both have established here is that White does indeed have an attack in the line we have been talking about with Black's R on g8 and White's R's on g1 and g6. To go as far as stating that he has a winning mating attack is innacurate. And hence here is where the problem lies.

Indeed in response to my line of 36. Qh5 Qf8 is the best reply. I am glad to see that we both found this. I found this when I asked you the question and therefore was glad to see that you got it right. Had you got it wrong, well that would have been really bad on an easy one mover that leads to the loss of B's Q.

All in all, it was good investigating the line that you provided there Fisheremon. Indeed, it seems as if though White would do well in simply grabbing a couple of free pawns and then exchanging Queens.

But all in all, I am glad that we analyzed mating attack lines. I am sure the benefit in this regard is for both of us.

I appreciate exchanging ideas with you.

LTJ

P.S. Do you use a board to analyze this things, man?

Jan-20-07  Fisheremon: <LoveThatJoker: LoveThatJoker: Fisheremon, if one thing we both have established here is that White does indeed have an attack in the line we have been talking about with Black's R on g8 and White's R's on g1 and g6. To go as far as stating that he has a winning mating attack is innacurate. And hence here is where the problem lies.> What we've discussed is that White has no attack with 33...Qc7 34.Qg2. Certainly you may try 34...Qf7 35.Qh3, but seeminly less convincing than the one I indicated <33...Qc7 34.Rxe6 Qf7 35.Re5 b6 36.Rf5 Qe6 37.Qf4 g5 38.Qg3 Nb4 39.Rgf1 Rg7 40.Rf6> Also I provided the winning line with <That is why Fisheremon, I do think that here <30...fxe6 31.Bxe8 Rxe8 32.Rhg3 Rg8 33.Rg6> 32...Re7 is worth considering.>. Of course I couldn't "publish" the whole analysis (sometimes containing a bug, but not this time!)

<P.S. Do you use a board to analyze this things, man?> My point of view is that board or computer are just a tool. To see Chess as a highest form of the art one has to find intuitive moves that computer can't. Here I was glad that was the move 32.Rhg3 which is a combination of positional and tactical styles.

Jan-20-07  LoveThatJoker: I use neither board nor computer.

LTJ

Jan-20-07  Fisheremon: <LoveThatJoker: I use neither board nor computer. LTJ> Take my bow ! It could be greater in that manner to find intuitive moves (or sacs). My style's just to find original (or intuitive) solutions in order to understand Chess deeper.
Jan-20-07  LoveThatJoker: Well, Fisheremon, I commend you, man. You are a good analyst for a non-pro player. That is something great as it is already.

I hope you realize that I am not afraid of stating a line and then having someone try to refute it. I am looking for truth in Chess too and if I am wrong it is because I have made a mistake and therefore it is my responsibility to acknowledge it and correct it.

I do think I do a fairly decent job already as it is seeing as how I solve all these problems Blindfold, but it is not enough.

I still make mistakes and this is something I cannot become complacent about.

It is important not to make mistakes, so if I am ever wrong please point it out - as you have been - and I will admit to it - as I have been.

And if you are ever wrong - just admit to it - and get stronger in the process!

LTJ

Jan-20-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  pittpanther: <<pittpanther: A follow up to < epiph: no, ng6 doesn't work, because I think one of the key ideas behind ne6 is that it threatens the following beautiful combination: 30...Rxg7+ 31Rxg7 Qxh6+!! 32Kxh6 Bxf7 mates > What if black does not play 32 Kxh6 but rather plays Kg8? Can black weather the storm?> 32...Bxf7 is not even mate, as the black king escapes via g5.

Forgive me if this is full of errors, as I haven't bothered to check it on a board, but rather than 30. Rxg7, the move I think is 30. Nxg7!, after which 30... Rxg7 31. Qxh6+!, and if black tries to decline with 31... Kg8, white forces him to take the queen with 32. Qh8+!! Kxh8 33. Bxf7+ Rh7 34. Rg8#> I have also noticed that after 30. Rxg7 Rxg7 31. Qxh6 Kh8 that white has a brilliant win with 32 Bg6! he will mate with Qh8 and black is powerless to stop it. If he takes the bishop with the rook then Qh7 mates or if takes with the pawn then Qh8 followed by Qf8. This could almost be a Monday or Tuesday puzzle to find 32 Bg6!.

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