|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 4 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Aug-01-07 | | tal lover: Grischuk had a totally winning position, its amazing how a Super GM can draw in a 2connected pawns+knight Vs knight endgame. |
|
| Aug-01-07 | | geigermuller: nice save! |
|
| Aug-01-07 | | Maroczy: Apparently not a pressure player, I thought he had this game. Tons of pressure coming up in Mexico. |
|
| Aug-01-07 | | weisyschwarz: I feel so dumb here. Would 66.f5 Nxe5 67.Kf4 w/g4 later have saved the day? |
|
| Aug-01-07 | | Marvol: Surely this is not a theoretical draw :O? |
|
| Aug-01-07 | | AlexandraThess: Alexander should have won this one. He has played brillianty and gained a decisive advantage, just to throw it away at the end. How said:( |
|
| Aug-01-07 | | jahhaj: <weisyschwarz> Black will never let White play g4. After 66.f5 Nxe5 67.Kf4 Black just moves the knight between g4 and e5 or f6. If White moves his king forward then Black takes the pawn on g3 and the knight stops the other pawn. |
|
| Aug-01-07 | | jahhaj: <Marvol> It surely is, has been since 61.Kf3?, 61.f5 was the only winning move. Presumably Grischuk missed the stalemate after 62.Nxg4. Once Black had her knight on g4 the game was drawn because White couldn't evade the checks and defend the pawn on g3. |
|
| Aug-01-07 | | Wolfgang01: Resigning never saved half or full points. Judit fought bravely and like a giant 2day!! If you miss a winning plan, you can't the victory with 2 pawn's up. The stalemate-threatning occurs randomly, but who would find it??? |
|
| Aug-01-07 | | Marvol: <jahhaj> Sure, I don't doubt it is a draw in the final position - I meant that K+N+2P(adjacent) v K+N cannot be a general theoretical draw surely, i.e. Grischuk missed a win here or there. Which indeed he did. Too bad, Judit oughta have been punished for playing the Petroff. She can do so much better than that boring stuff :P. |
|
| Aug-02-07 | | Karpova: When playing against Judit you always have to be very careful because she fights like a lion! Sure, Grischuk got a winning position but not because of playing brilliantly. Judit played the opening quite strange. Why not going for Smyslov's and Kramnik's 12...g6 Anand vs Kramnik, 2000
Beliavsky vs Smyslov, 1986 or Yusupov's (a great expert on the Petrov) 0-0-0 Wahls vs Yusupov, 1992 |
|
| Aug-02-07 | | acirce: Yes, 12..Nd6?? was a horrible mistake. As I said during the game, 12..g6 and 12..0-0-0 are indeed better while the also common 12..f6 is supposed to be pretty bad due to 13.Nc3 Nxc3 14.Qxf5 Nb5 15.Qg4 Nxd4 16.Nd3 <and the pin causes Black immense difficulty> according to Raetsky/Chetverik who go on to give a couple of illustrative lines starting 16..Kf7 17.Nf4! Qf5 18.Rxe7+! and 16..Nc2 17.Nb4! (I haven't looked closer at this myself but at least it does look dangerous.) Polgár has only played the Petrov a couple of times before, and then only in rapid as far as I can see. But if you're going to play an opening that can so easily turn so sharp, you have to know what you are doing! It's not good to have to start thinking at move 12 in a position where a mistake can prove disastrous. 12.Nc3 Nxc3 13.Qxc3 Be6 and 14.Re5 Qc6 or 14.Qxc7 Bd6 with great compensation, Black is always OK. For how to deal with 12.g4 look at the violent Anand vs I Sokolov, 1999 |
|
| Feb-20-08 | | zooter: ok...yet another forced draw...
61...Ng4 forces the draw as 62.Nxg4 is stalemate. But, white can try 62.Ke4 Nf6+ (not 62...Kxg3 63.Nxg4 followed by queening the remaining pawn) and white can either choose to go attack the black knight (losing both pawns in the process) or protect the g3 pawn by 63.Kf3 when black again plays Ng4 forcing repetition of moves.. time to check and if correct 3/3 this week |
|
| Feb-20-08 | | zooter: well apparently there are tons of variations around which I'm in no position to analyze now (in office) |
|
| Feb-20-08 | | tjshann: I liked this ending. Must have been frustrating for White. I found the first move, but confess I did not see the whole ending. |
|
| Feb-20-08 | | dzechiel: Black to move. White it up two pawns. "Medium/Easy". I think I have seen this game before, but in any case the key move isn't that tough to find, given the theme we are seeing this week. 61...Ng4!
If 62 Nxg4 then stalemate!
If 62 Ke2 then 62...Kxg3 should be good enough for a draw. If 62 f5 then 62...Nxe5+ should draw easily.
If the knight moves (say 62 Nf7) then 62...Nh2+ 63 Kf2 (otherwise 63...Kxg3) Ng4+ 64 Kf3 repeats the position. The only move remaining is
62 Ke4
Black might be tempted to play 62...Kxg3 but then white can play 63 Nxg4 Kxg4 64 Ke5 and is winning. No, I think black needs to play 62...Nf2+
first. If white plays
63 Kf3
then
63...Ng4
repeats the position. If white tries to make a run for it with 63 Kf5
then
63...Kxg3
should draw when black gives up his knight for the remaining pawn. Time to check. |
|
| Feb-20-08 | | dzechiel: Well, of course the line in the game was one that I didn't consider. <sigh> |
|
| Feb-20-08 | | LivBlockade: Maybe White should play 59. Kg2 and 60. Kh3 before playing f4. That avoids the stalemate problems. |
|
| Feb-20-08 | | Hongkonger: Interestingly Rybka seems to think that white can still win after 61....Ng4 with 62.Nc4. If then 62...Nh2+ there is 63.Ke4 Kxg3 64.Ne5! where the white knight stops the black knight from getting back via either f3 and g4 and white can queen the f-pawn. Need to look at that line further though. |
|
| Feb-20-08 | | RookFile: Well, on move 66 in the game, we have the same position as your recommendation of 62. Nc4. |
|
| Feb-20-08 | | Hongkonger: <RookFile: Well, on move 66 in the game, we have the same position as your recommendation of 62. Nc4.> Indeed, quite right. Not my recommendation by the way, I was just wondering what Rybka thought. After black plays Nf1 as in the game, Rybka wants to play g4 but I don't think that works any better than the game does. |
|
| Feb-20-08 | | MostlyAverageJoe: <Hongkonger: Interestingly Rybka seems to think that white can still win after 61....Ng4 with 62.Nc4. If then 62...Nh2+ there is 63.Ke4 Kxg3 64.Ne5! where the white knight stops the black knight from getting back via either f3 and g4 and white can queen the f-pawn. Need to look at that line further though> Here's the place to convince yourself about the draw: http://www.k4it.de/index.php?topic=... In endgames, Rybka without tablebases does not fare well. On a couple positions I tried, Hiarcs without tablebases is much more realistic (the position after 61....Ng4 decreases steadily to +0.33 after 29 plies) |
|
| Feb-20-08 | | Hongkonger: I shouldn't have used Rybka. Much as I like Rybka I often find that it is rather over-optimistic in endings - as soon as I switched to Shredder/Fritz I got a much more realistic assessment. |
|
| Feb-20-08 | | Hongkonger: <In endgames, Rybka without tablebases does not fare well> Indeed, I quite agree, as I have just commented above. |
|
Feb-20-08
 | | al wazir: I see that the way my father taught me to play chess was all wrong. We should have started out with ♔+♙ vs. ♔. After I mastered all the possible positions, he could have added another ♙. By the age of 12 I would have been ready for ♘s, the next year for ♗s, and so on. By the time I was old enough to vote, perhaps I would have understood endgames. As it is, I never will. |
|
 |
|
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 4 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
