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|Nov-06-10|| ||Eyal: According to ICC, when Kramnik played 22...Bh7 the clock times were 0:41 - 1:36 (they start with 1:40) - so, considering the complexity of the position, his speed of play indicates that he was still within prep (the first new move in the game is 17...Bf5, instead of ...Be6 as played a couple of weeks ago in the Cap d'Agde, Lahno vs T Kosintseva, 2010). If that's the case, then Kramnik indeed screwed up the prep in an uncharacteristic way. |
Again, according to ICC the first time Kramnik had a long think - about 30 minutes - was after 25.Bg3; perhaps he missed the Bg3-Be5 idea? (without which White's position would be very difficult). There's a subtle tactical point here - if Black tries 25...f6, to prevent Be5, then White can solve his development problems with 26.Ke2! Rc8 27.Bb3, the point being that 27...Rc3 doesn't work now, because 28.Bxd5 (followed by e4, preventing Bd3+) comes <with check>.
|Nov-06-10|| ||polarmis: Aronian was interviewed after the game (in Russian): http://chess-news.ru/node/225 I translated some of it here (at the end), but mainly the bits about Carlsen: http://www.chessintranslation.com/2...|
Here's what he said about the game:
<Aronian: It didn't go well for me. I didn't expect Volodya to play that opening and went for a very sharp line without any understanding of it. Quite a rash decision, but it turned out that... Volodya knew it all, but not to the end. And somehow I managed to equalise, and then, of course, when Volodya lost a couple of tempos... Well, although the position was still drawn he, no doubt, got upset and didn't notice...
Surov: You're thinking of the moment 32...Rd3 - 33...Ra3?
A: Yes. Because after b6 it seemed to me during the game that it was nearly over. That the knight would take the pawn and that would promote. But there, it turned out, there was an excellent resource, noted by the computer - 38...Rad2! And if 39. Kb7 b3. After that he has the idea of giving a perpetual. It's quite simple, but when you blunder so badly, no doubt, he didn't notice it because of nerves. He was upset.
S: And what did you mean when you said that he was prepared, but not to the end?
A: I mean that it's clear that you usually look at the opening for Black: well, ok, this position is better for Black - well, I won't look any further. And that's correct. He was theoretically prepared, but his game didn't go so well for him today.
S: At Chesspro Sergey Zagrebelny, who commentated on the game live, noted that the move 22...Rfa8 instead of 22...Bh7 was almost winning.
A: No doubt, no doubt. I mean the position's very dangerous. I did everything rashly.>
One strange thing yesterday - did anyone notice that most of the players had earplugs!? Kramnik took his out at one point. It was also funny when he made the losing blunder ...Rfd2 as he left his seat very quickly & the commentators said he was going for a bathroom break, though they joked by using whatever euphemism is used in tennis (the Russian sounded like "life pause"!? but I doubt it was!).
|Nov-06-10|| ||polarmis: <Eyal>, my guess would be that Kramnik was out of preparation but was thinking in Aronian's time (but not too deeply...) and simply decided to move quickly to keep up the pressure - hence missing the key moment in the game.|
|Nov-06-10|| ||Eyal: <polarmis> Yeah, it sounds plausible.|
|Nov-06-10|| ||Hesam7: <Eyal: According to ICC, when Kramnik played 22...Bh7 the clock times were 0:41 - 1:36 (they start with 1:40) - so, considering the complexity of the position, his speed of play indicates that he was still within prep (the first new move in the game is 17...Bf5, instead of ...Be6 as played a couple of weeks ago in the Cap d'Agde, Lahno vs T Kosintseva, 2010). If that's the case, then Kramnik indeed screwed up the prep in an uncharacteristic way.>|
Thanks for the concrete info on the clocks, since the engines see 22. ... Rfa8 right away it could not have been something like Kramnik vs Leko, 2004 either ...
|Nov-06-10|| ||Eyal: <polarmis: One strange thing yesterday - did anyone notice that most of the players had earplugs!?>|
There's an explanation of that in the chessvibes report: <As we were spending most of the day in the press room, we missed one saillant detail of this first round which chief arbiter Geurt Gijssen told us. Apparently there had been some activity on the Red Square preparing for the November 7 festivities, including tanks (!) and… lots of noise. Gijssen had ordered someone to buy ear plugs and most of the players did use them. “So far I haven’t received official complaints from the players who lost today,” said Gijssen.>
|Nov-06-10|| ||Ulhumbrus: The chessbase website has this to say on Black's 22nd move <So far Kramnik's opening preparation has been flawless and his advantage is close to winning. The combination of passed pawn and wonderful lines for his rooks should be decisive. 22...Bh7?? Here is the guilty party. Black had to play 22...Rfa8! 23.0-0 (The bishop is untouchable since 23.Nxf5? is met with 23...b3! 24.Ne7+ Kf8 25.Kd2 (25.Nxd5 b2 26.Nc3 Rc1 27.Kd2 g5! preparing Rd8+) 25...b2 >|
and this on 38...Rfd2 <38...Rfd2?? The wrong rook! 38...Rad2! 39.Nxb7 b3 40.Nc5 b2 41.Bxb2 Forced since the threat was 41.-- Rxg2+ 42.Rxg2 Rxg2+ 43.Kxg2 b1Q >
One idea is to make a decision about which Rook to play and then to choose the other one. because one always chooses the wrong Rook. Admittedly this cannot be called a true answer.
More seriously, the analysis above suggests that the reason for 38...Rad2 instead of 38...Rfd2 in the position after 38 Nc5 is that the Rooks will not then be disconnected after Black's b pawn reaches the second rank so that the Rooks will continue to threaten the capture ...Rxg2+ in addition to the threat to promote the pawn.
|Nov-06-10|| ||polarmis: <Ulhumbrus>, the "wrong rook" move is very nicely explained by Eyal above. The line he mentions that Kramnik was maybe hoping for (41. b7?) was also GM Zagrebelny's thought in the ChessPro commentary. |
I think the Chessbase "??" is going a bit far for 22...Bh7. It only changes a probably won position into a position with a reasonable black advantage.
|Nov-07-10|| ||visayanbraindoctor: Aronian must have been very happy to win this game from Kramnik, the first time for him in a classical game after a dozen tries. |
More and more, I am coming to believe that Aronian is the chessic descendant of Lasker and Korchnoi.
|Nov-08-10|| ||kurtrichards: <Aronian's first win against Kramnik in a classical game...> ...the sign that he is ready for the world championship eliminations and eventually to challenge Anand? Or just getting even when Vlad destroyed him in Nanjing the reason why he was not present in Bilbao? Or it's just me thinking of too much chess? Ahh...whatever. Glad that we have this game called Chess! :)|
|Nov-08-10|| ||Smooth Operator: Ended at move 41... Let me check Aronian- Gelfand game.|
|Nov-08-10|| ||khursh: <Vlad destroyed him in Nanjing> Armageddon draw is called destroying?|
|Nov-08-10|| ||polarmis: Kramnik finally explained the mystery of what went wrong in this game. He knew of two different wins but played one move from each of them! If you're just looking for this then scroll down to the one chess diagram: http://www.chessintranslation.com/2...|
|Nov-08-10|| ||Eyal: <polarmis> Thanks for shedding light on the mystery… I think it might be worth copy-pasting from your site to here:|
<[Kramnik]: I can’t even understand what happened, because I had the win written down, and I remembered the ideas. I needed to accurately remember everything, to calculate it to the end. To do what I always do. I had lots of time and the position was very simple.>
click for larger view
(position after 21.Nd4)
<You can win in two ways: 21…Rfc8 22. Bd1 Bh7 or 21…Ra1+ 22. Bd1 Rfa8. I made the first move from one win, and the second from the second: 21…Ra1+ 22. Bd1 Bh7. i.e. I chose the only path that didn’t win. Moreover, strangely enough, I’m not even particularly better.>
While Aronian’s description of HIS "preparation" for this game provides an absolutely delightful contrast:
<And do you want me to tell you why I won today? Instead of preparing for the game I walked around the city for two hours – ok, maybe not two, but definitely one and a half – looking for the "Collected Works of Platonov". And when I finally found it I was so happy that I wasn’t thinking anymore who I was playing or how to play. I knew that it’d all be fine.
But why walk around the city for two hours. Aren’t you staying in the Ritz-Carlton?
Then you could simply cross Tverskaya Street, go to the "Moscow" bookshop, and that’s that.
I looked there. They didn’t have it. There was some sort of junk. Some Platonov, K. While I needed, of course, A.
And where did you find what you were looking for?
In a big shop on Novy Arbat. I found it and bought it. And now I’m completely, to the teeth, ready for the tournament!>
|Nov-09-10|| ||Ulhumbrus: Kramnik: <You can win in two ways: 21…Rfc8 22. Bd1 Bh7 or 21…Ra1+ 22. Bd1 Rfa8. I made the first move from one win, and the second from the second: 21…Ra1+ 22. Bd1 Bh7. i.e. I chose the only path that didn’t win. Moreover, strangely enough, I’m not even particularly better.>|
This suggests two questions:
1. After 21...Ra1+ 22 Bd1 how does 22...Rfa8 improve on 22..Bh7?
2. How does 21...Rfc8 22 Bd1 Bh7 improve on 21...Ra1+ 22 Bd1 Bh7?
One answer to the first question is that with a Rook on a8 instead of a N on h7, on 23 Nb3 Rb1 24 Nd2 Black has 24...Rxd1+! 25 Kxd1 Ra1+
One answer to the second question is that 23 Nb3 does not attack a Rook on a1 and cause it to lose a tempo on moving again, and Black can spend this tempo on supporting the advance of the b pawn instead: 23...Rc3 24 0-0 Ra3 25 Nd2 b3
|Nov-09-10|| ||kia0708: Man, this is so cool !
Eyal wrote: "Instead of preparing for the game I walked around the city for two hours – ok, maybe not two, but definitely one and a half – looking for the "Collected Works of Platonov". And when I finally found it I was so happy that I wasn’t thinking anymore who I was playing or how to play. I knew that it’d all be fine."
|Nov-09-10|| ||bezzazz: 16. ... Nxc5?? is the dumbest move I have ever seen from Kramnik because it loses material automatically for nothing! Please correct me if I'm wrong.|
|Nov-09-10|| ||Davolni: Isn't Kramnik being TOOOO optimistic about his chances of winning in "both ways", even without the blunder he made at the end??
I think without a blunder it was a draw.
Stockfish is still showing +0.44 for white.
So I don't know where he is getting that idea from that he had "2 ways" to win.
|Nov-09-10|| ||Eyal: <Davolni> At least the 22…Rfa8 line is hugely favorable for Black (you can see some analysis here - http://www.thechessmind.net/storage...). If you have a Stockfish that’s showing +0.44 in the following position|
click for larger view
You should really consider getting a new engine…
|Nov-09-10|| ||Davolni: <EYAL> we are talking about different time points. I was referring to his latest blunder at move 38. I thought that's what he was referring to, that even at that point he was still winning. plus I dont use any engines, i was just referrig what Chessbomb was giving. Strangely enough that Stockfish thing is not showing that move at all.. 22..Rda8... Obviously, that was a strong move, that everybody mentioned, except I guess that Stockfish program.|
Thanks for clearification.
|Nov-12-10|| ||Bondsamir: At any rate Kramnik will remain the man of the decade.|
|Jan-28-11|| ||PokerPro: why not 8..Qa5 instead of 8..nbd7???|
|Jan-28-11|| ||technical draw: <why not 8..Qa5 instead of 8..nbd7???>|
9.Bxf6 messes up blacks kingside.
|Apr-02-12|| ||wordfunph: game comment by Levon from the book The Ragozin Complex by Barsky..|
<As always, I mixed things up somehow in the opening and got a variation I looked at about 5 years ago. He played a move I didn't know and we reached a very unpleasant position for me. In general , I am quite ignorant about modern theory. Earlier, White was thought to be doing well here, but a lot of water has flowed under the
bridge since then , and I have not been
following it, of course.>
|Apr-03-12|| ||anjyplayer: Quite a complex game.|
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