< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 20 OF 20 ·
|Jun-01-12|| ||Peligroso Patzer: <Eyal: <You don't grab that rook in the corner unless you're certain you can get the Queen out. At the WCC level it must be regarded a stone-cold blunder. For goodness' sake, White's 17th is his first non-forced move after Gelfand sacs his Nh4. Hard to fathom.>
Of course it's a terrible blunder, but it's not <that> hard to fathom. Clearly, when Gelfand played 14...Qf6 he *assumed* that White has to defend against the threat on f3 *** >|
Well, to play a move after a player's thought process has gone as far as "he's got to defend the threat on f3", and no further is the level of depth one might expect to encounter in five-minute chess (forgive the oxymoron) played in a coffeehouse, not at the WCC.
|Jun-01-12|| ||Eyal: <Well, to play a move after a player's thought process has gone as far as "he's got to defend the threat on f3", and no further is the level of depth one might expect to encounter in five-minute chess (forgive the oxymoron) played in a coffeehouse, not at the WCC.>|
Actually, that wasn't an accurate way to describe this thought process – because, as I mentioned in the next post, Gelfand said in the press conference that he did consider the possibility of 15.gxh5, but concluded he was going to be ok after the sequence leading to the rook capture and 17.Qf4 (which was also Anand's first idea); he missed Qf2. And of course, in general there's no denying that it's a very very bad blunder for WCC level. My main point was that it's not <that> elementary or inexplicable as presented in the post I was responding to. It's true that White's 17th is his first non-forced move after the knight on h5 is captured, but the blunder didn't start for Gelfand on move 14 or 15 – from his perspective, it was a hole in one of the sidelines that he was apparently already calculating on move 11 or 12.
|Jun-01-12|| ||Peligroso Patzer: Thanks for the clarification, <Eyal>. My previous comment was posted rather hurriedly just before running out the door for work in the morning, and without having read everything you had already posted in this thread. My “time pressure” earlier today was exacerbated by the fact that my computer, which normally does processing at a chelonian rate, earlier this morning could manage no better than an escargotian pace.|
Thanks also, <Eyal>, for mentioning in one of your posts that Gelfand resigned quickly after <17. Qf2>. (I did not have the opportunity to follow this game in real time.) I had guessed that the shock of discovering his Queen had no safe way out from the corner had probably led Gelfand to resign precipitously, and probably without noticing that by sacrificing his Knight (17. … Nc6!?), it still would have been possible to save the Queen. The confirmation you provided that Gelfand did, indeed, resign quickly seems to confirm this speculation. Black, of course (as you and others have previously commented) would have been objectively quite lost even after <17. … Nc6>, but it probably was worth trying, and if Gelfand had considered that move, it certainly would have justified taking a significant amount of time before resigning.
|Jun-01-12|| ||Eyal: <PP> Btw, if you - or anybody else - wants to follow the events as they unfolded in the final stage of the game, with Leko and Nepomniatchi being rather clueless about what's going on and experiencing the shock together with Gelfand, it's on http://moscow2012.fide.com/en/vid-a..., from about 16:41:00 to 16:54:00. Both dramatic and educational... also, the exact time that passes from the moment Anand plays 17.Qf2 to Gelfand's resignation is 3 minutes.|
|Jun-04-12|| ||voyager39: <DanielBryant> <I think this is unworthy of GOTD status> I can bet my last penny that you're the typical computer crippled patzer who has no clue what's actually going on. |
This was a brilliant and historic game.
|Jun-09-12|| ||King.Arthur.Brazil: Comming back to Chessgames in 2012, I fill (badly) surprised for this kind of game! I really don't believe in a 17 moves game with some mis-prepared oppening trap. Tell me, where are the computers? Are they fooling me? Fistly, I don't understand that in a prepared line (homework) didn't GELFAND see the answer 12.g4 for his Bxf5? So, in his study the "best" 14...Qf6(?) lose by 17.Qf2... And didn't he see it at home before? Could he tried a little step more? Why didn't he played 17...Nc6? If lost, try something first. If 18.dxc6 Qxc6, and black has fight. But, if 18.Be2? Nd4+ treating 19...Rxe2+ followed by 20...Qxb1 and 21...Nxe2. Also, if 18.Bd3 Nb5+, now 19.Kd2, Nxd3, 20.Kxd3, Qxb1 and black has 2R x N+Q,lost but with fight... Back to the point: this "black prepared trap" is an absurd for a WCC game... He trow out his yesterday victory (point) in such a easy way, that seemd to me like a child playing. Sorry, but it is ridiculous...|
|Jun-09-12|| ||LIFE Master AJ: My web page on this game - link below.
(I have not done the video yet.)
|Jun-30-12|| ||reisanibal: I set the last position up on computer (Chessmaster 9000). Both sides were CM9000. And black went on to winning this game :S Maybe, Gelfand resigned too early. Material count is not that bad.|
|Jul-29-12|| ||kappertjes: <reisanibal> An interesting experiment indeed. Now CM9000 is not the best engine in town, but still intriguing. |
I am convinced that anyone who says that 'it is obvious' that Qf6 was not the move is just an engine junkie. I was watching the game and it was not super simple, it was not obvious. Gelfand missed it, as did the super GMs commenting. Not only are there patzers, patzers everywhere, they talk trash about the best players in world. brr...
|Aug-13-12|| ||vikram2791: I analyzed the game: After Gelfand plays something like 17...Nd7( not saving the queen) 18.Be3, Gelfand can play ...Qxb1 19.Kxb1 because 2 rooks are equal to a queen. I think Gelfand was in shock or something, because he resigned too early. Anyway, I'm glad Anand won.|
|Aug-13-12|| ||Eyal: <vikram2791: I analyzed the game: After Gelfand plays something like 17...Nd7( not saving the queen) 18.Be3, Gelfand can play ...Qxb1 19.Kxb1 because 2 rooks are equal to a queen.>|
Count the pieces again - White has an extra bishop; that's completely lost for Black (and it's 18.Bd3, not Be3). As was already noted several times here, the only way for Black to put up any kind of fight instead of resigning on the spot was 17...Nc6.
|Aug-13-12|| ||vikram2791: To eyal,
Thanks for correcting me.
|Sep-26-12|| ||LIFE Master AJ: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiG8...
This is my YT video on this game ... again, it is supported by a web page, that link has already been given.
|Jan-19-13|| ||voyager39: I think this 17 move record will hold till eternity...the much hyped challenger Carlsen in any case never wins anything before time trouble around move 40.|
|Feb-02-13|| ||hchrist: Gelfand played like a patzer here. What a shame.|
|Feb-23-13|| ||talisman: Indian Game/Anti Grunfeld/Alekhine Variation...is that the same as Neo-Grunfeld?|
|Mar-26-13|| ||dagwood2005: Pretty sure this is a kind of King's Indian and not a Neo-Grunfeld|
|Apr-02-13|| ||morfishine: Inexplicable...Improvements?: no comment
What not to do? Well, Nh5 is useful in many systems/variations; but on move 7? of a hybrid-Gruenfeld?; with the Q-side still undeveloped?; against Anand? LOL
|Nov-19-13|| ||scholes: Shameful game. Gelfand deserved to be the world champion if not for this- probably his most weak game in decades. |
He just choked hard.
|Nov-20-13|| ||ThumbTack: I am late to look at this game, but as <LIFE Master AJ> has already pointed out in his analysis, after 8.Bg5, Black needs to play 8..h6, not 8..Bf6!? . 8..Bf6 really deserves a simple "?". And even after 8..h6, 9. Be3 Nd7, Black still has a struggle to equalize. It is also quite true that, if Black had played 17..Nc6 instead of resigning, it would have only postponed the inevitable.|
How best to play this opening after 6.Ne2 O-O 7. Nec3...? It would seem that 7..Nh5 is not the way to go.
|Feb-13-14|| ||talwnbe4: Critical line seems to be 17..Nc6 18. dxc6 Qxc6 19. Bd3 Re5 20. Rf1 Qc7 (defends f7) 21. Nd5 Rxd5 22. cxd5 c4 23. Be2 Re8 24. hxg6 hxg6 25. h4 Re5 26. h5 gxh5 2.0 (Fruit 2.2)|
|Feb-13-14|| ||weisyschwarz: That is one nasty trap. Anand can be very sly, and that enough should have been a red flag for Gelfand that this is not what it seems.|
|Feb-22-14|| ||cplyakap: I don't understand Gelfand's resign decision.17..Nc6 saves queen and Gelfand's position isn't bad.|
|Apr-01-14|| ||OldTimr: Maybe Gelfand was hoping for 16. Kc1 then just played one more move before resigning.|
|Aug-27-14|| ||Ke2: Great opening. The Pawn Pyramid attack.|
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