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Alexander Grischuk vs Fabiano Caruana
World Championship Candidates (2018), Berlin GER, rd 14, Mar-27
Russian Game: Modern Attack (C43)  ·  0-1


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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 27 OF 27 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Mar-27-18  DansChessLounge: I wish Fabi would have gone for 21...Nxb4! This game would have been a brilliancy for sure. For a recap of the game with analysis check out the video -->
Mar-27-18  sudoplatov: By 21.f3 I thought that Black had a much better position. Anyone got an idea where White went wrong? Seems like by move 8 Black has equalized. Perhaps 6.Qxd2 is better. It loses no more tempi that 6.Bxd2.

Maybe Caruana just understands this type of position better and a few 98% moves allow White to drift into an inferior position.

Mar-27-18  sudoplatov: Or perhaps 7.c4 to attack the Center before Black moves in.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: <WorstPlayerEver: <Richard Taylor> Oh you should once listen to Rock n Roll Damnation. Uplifting tropical tune.> I don't know it but I recall they were or are a Heavy Rock group. At one stage I liked heavy rock etc. I liked that and Bach but I don't listen to much music now...I know you are partly joking but I will check it out...Your comment about their hymn being from AC/DC I missed as I was tired as bothery, not with it when I woke up...really much earlier than usual...
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: <chancho: Kamsky represented the red white and blue, but he wasn't born in the US. Caruana was.>

Yes I think that is a valid point. I was a bit cynical about this nationalistic aspect of things, but today played over a game by NZ's GM Murray Chandler who some time ago beat Mestel etc in a tournament Barden was talking about in an old magazine I had. I felt that strange pride one feels. And I can see people in the US getting behind Fabiano Caruana more than Kamsky etc as those World Champions were so in that kind of 'interregnum' period when the PCA made it very confusing, then Kasparov retired. It then started to get back on track so to speak.

So yes, Caruana is, in a sense, "more American" as he spends a lot of time there and was born there. Kamsky did also but wasn't born there. Who was the other, was Khalifman technically from or of the US?

I think, assuming that 'the smoke has cleared' since Short and Kasparov et al indulged in all that nonsense, that we are now back to normal and Caruana is definitely US born. Somehow he and Nakamura seem 'more American'...of course this can lead into all kinds of traps and contradictions...but I think I understand the enthusiasm for Caruana as the Challenger, now, in any case.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: <DansChessLounge: I wish Fabi would have gone for 21...Nxb4! This game would have been a brilliancy for sure. For a recap of the game with analysis check out the video -->>

Thanks for the video. My "engine" Komodo seems to find that White can hold the position after the sacrifice but it was an interesting idea. Also the B can be returned for one of the pawns. But in the game it may have worked...Interesting in any case.

Mar-28-18  WorstPlayerEver: <Richard Taylor>

No, I think Bon Scott wrote some good lyrics. Unfortunately he practised a bit too much of what he preached.

And the music on that album, 'Power Age', is quite laid back in comparison with other work.

Mar-28-18  cadavieco: I feel very pleased that Caruana won the chance to play Carlsen. It's going to be a very interesting match. Congratulations!
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: <TD> - <nothing rhymes with London>


There was a young fellow named Dundon
Who went to a chess match in London
When Magnus resigned
In a Maroczy Bind
He figured the opening was punned on.

Mar-28-18  ragtag: my kingdom for a condom
Premium Chessgames Member
  Fusilli: <cadavieco> I second that!
Premium Chessgames Member
  morfishine: A naturalized US citizen (born outside the US) is just as American as one born in the US. [or vice-versa: a natural born American is not "more American" than a naturalized citizen born outside the US]

To think otherwise is to admit one is bordering on lunacy


Premium Chessgames Member
  Marmot PFL: In most respects that is true. A naturalized citizen can't be president however.
Mar-28-18  ragtag: <A naturalized citizen can't be president however.> What about your Kenyan one?
Mar-28-18  Fanques Fair: Grishuk should have played 21-f4 , not 21-f3 . The only available plan for White was to rush with f4 and f5 before it was to late.
Mar-28-18  Antonio Ernesto: Carlsen is smiling! In November

is Carlsen +5 -2 =n(?) or better

I dont believe that shall be

an exciting match.

Mar-28-18  Justin796: All i know is the Ruy Lopez should be banned based on the last World Championship..(Caruana isn't as boring as Karjakin but still).
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: I don't find Karjakin boring. It is called playing well and we saw it mostly in the last title match.

He has a tendency to follow theory but Carlsen has a great way with players who are remotely Tal like and defuses their desire to be too active (in most cases).

However I think Karjakin is as capable of anyone of playing interesting chess. In this tournament nothing by Caruana was very impressive. It was solid and pragmatic. I actually think Karjakin was more interesting.

But I have to say I am not a fan of the Berlin. I would like to see the Scotch or an Evans Gambit thrown in. We need someone who is radically different.

Aronian looked like that. But I think the talented player who is going to roll Carlsen is either not yet born or is still developing but then he will be playing an older Carlsen. Wesley So is not really firing on all cylinders. Maybe he will radically improve. It might be he will fade away and be one of those might have beens etc

The most interesting games I felt was Kramnik's win over Aronian early in the tournament (so a younger Kramnik playing as he is now would probably be in a good position to roll Carlsen out of the way), Grishuk versus Wesley So I think it was. I cant recall one by Caruana but I didn't see many live. It is definitely better seing them in action especially if one can see the players. But that doesn't seem to be possible these days. I think some mafioso company have grabbed the rights to do that and we can only see delayed versions of it...

In any case the World Champs will be too late for me. I cannot watch those games. I got up early for one and felt terrible. So I will just play over the games in the morning.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: <WorstPlayerEver: <Richard Taylor> No, I think Bon Scott wrote some good lyrics. Unfortunately he practised a bit too much of what he preached.

And the music on that album, 'Power Age', is quite laid back in comparison with other work.>

I looked up them and Bon Scott. I actually liked that kind of music. It was either Beethoven or something like that. I'm thinking of the 9th Symphony where there is a long, seemingly pointless blast of music at one part, it is dense and seems to go on forever...I used to think it was incredible but now it seems not so good, maybe: but I am pretty sure I used to go and see 'The Human Instinct' for some weeks. They played in Auckland about 1970, unless it was another heavy rock group. I know it is crazy I used to listen and watch them but I can't really recall their name...But I am sure the Maori guitarist Billy TK was there...Yes Bon Scott (of AC/DC) was good. Crazy stuff! Some good YouTubes of AC/DC...

But a sad way to end for Bon Scott.

Mar-29-18  nok: <I looked up them and Bon Scott. I actually liked that kind of music. It was either Beethoven or something like that. I'm thinking of the 9th Symphony>

I don't remember Bon Scott on that. Maybe he played the congas.

Mar-30-18  miazga: Ok so here it is:
I think that Grischuk lost this last game on purpose. I know you're probably going to chew me up here, but just LOOK at this game. It starts with a3, a weak move in the opening alright but the real killer is 16.Nd4. This is the move that nobody would make in real game.It does not loose outright, comp will tell you that, it's a weak move but not so bad. But from a human perspective it kills your game completely! You end up with worse endgame right away and the one you can never win , it only can get worse. And it does, with a little help from white here and there, bit by bit..Nobody would play like this with white and nobody will repeat this, a joke, pawn on e5 is for attack,in engame a target , black has all the play, d4 break ... it's a positional suicide.Don't tell me player of Grischuk strength does not see this! And I don't know the deal and why and anything. But it's fishy,bad smells all around it. So other than that I think Caruana is a great opponent for Carlsen and the match will be exciting . Cheers.
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <miazga> I like Grischuk, and I'm generally hostile to accusations that someone lost on purpose, so I'm not objective. But I'll say two things:

At move 16:

1. On chessbomb, 3 of SF's top four choices involved playing Nd4 or Ng5 and trading queens. By no stretch of the imagination was 16.Nd4 a weak move.

2. I'm not within a million miles of Grischuk as a chess player, but I've often gotten to a point and said to myself <this isn't going right; I need to bail out>. That doesn't mean I'm trying to lose. It means I'm trying not to lose. 16.Nd4 might have been that kind of move for Grischuk.

Mar-30-18  miazga: <keypusher>I hope, really do, that you're right. But then again I look at this game and how smooth for Caruana it was.To win with black at this level, to order, and no risk , no nerves, just such an easy ride, better engame out of opening, smooth and yes, creamy.That doesn't happen often.Compare with Kramnik - Mamedyarov .Black had to play a risky variation gained a pawn but lagged developing and risked loosing big time.But also had a chance to win.

Or Aronian - Caruana , unsound attack but violent as hell , one miss and there's a checkmate. So there, as for computers recommending 16 Nd4 it shows how stupid they are...heh. I think that if that game was for real ,white either would not allow Bg4 (h3) or should get a setup like (after Re1) Qe2,Rad1 and b4 .Bf4 was also weak (opening , duh, dont move that piece twice) anyway ...who cares , right?

Premium Chessgames Member
  Penguincw: Caruana, with the superior position, knew that a draw would've secured a WCC match with Carlsen.

However, he plays on, and ends up getting the win and the WCC match.

Reminds me of a tournament game, by none other than Carlsen, where he had white vs. Aronian in the last round. Aronian with the inferior position, offered a draw, and had Carlsen accepted, he would've won the tournament outright immediately. He declined, pressed on and won the game and tournament.

Sounds similar. These guys really give 100%. I wouldn't be surprised if I hear come November "Carlsen/Caruana has an inferior position and offers a draw, and if Caruana/Carlsen accepted it, he would've been world champion, but he <declines> it. But he ends up pressing for the win and gets the title anyway."

May-19-18  johnkr: Now Giri's analysis is finally here in the latest New in Chess. He attributes Grischuk loss simply to fatigue, and mentions for example 16 Nd4? as a positional mistake. Then Gr. also another oversight on move 22 -- instead of 22 Bf2?, move 22 h4! Bf4 because after 23 Bxf4 Rxf4 there is the trick 24 Bg6! (engine) Rxh4?? 25 g3+-; so anyway White can trade Black's "good" bishop and play g3 and f4 with decent chances to hold.
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