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Wiede vs Alphonse Goetz
Strasbourg (1880)
King's Gambit: Accepted. Orsini Gambit (C33)  ·  0-1



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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jan-13-09  WhiteRook48: 4. Ke2 was better.
Jan-13-09  DarthStapler: I think white must have been smoking wiede when he played this game
Jan-31-09  WhiteRook48: those gambits are so bad for white
Jun-07-09  stevenmeow: when i manually drag the pawn to capture the rook, it turns into a queen.

is there a way to fix this?

Premium Chessgames Member
  Phony Benoni: I just happen to have an issue of the <Lower Slobbovian Journal of Chess> which gives a full account of this game, and can translate the story for you.

After <1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4>, Wiede noticed that several of his pawns were off center. He adjusted, in order, his b-, h-, and g-pawns, then played 3.Nf3.

"Wait a minute!" said Goetz, who was an unpleasant fellow. "You touched your b-pawn--you have to move it."

"But I was just adjusting", replied Wiede.

"Then you should have said <j'adoube>".

"But I don't speak French!"

"Makes no difference! Move the b-pawn."

Secretly, Goetz was hoping for 3.b4 so he could snatch another pawn, but when Wiede avoided the trap with <3.b3> he reluctantly played <3...Qh4+>. Wiede tried 4.Ke2, but Goetz was alert.

"Wait a minute! You also touched your g-pawn! You must interpose it!"

"What are you talking about? Touch-move isn't retroactive!"

"In this town it is. We're a law-and-order community."

"And anyway, I touched the h-pawn first."

"But that doesn't get you out of check. The rule is that you must move the first piece touched that can be legally moved. You can move the h-pawn next."

So the game continued <4.g3 fxg3 5.h3 g2+ 6.Ke2 Qxe4+ 7.Kf2 gxh1>

"And that's a knight", shouted Goetz gleefully, "With mate!"

"Whaddya mean, knight? You touched my rook; don't you have to promote to a rook?"

"Read the rules, dummy! I can get any piece I like."

"OK, you know the rules. But what's this knight you're talking about?"

"You know. Springer. Caballero. Horsie."

"I don't see one on the board."

"Well, I don't happen to have a third knight handy."

"Then it doesn't exist! Seeing is believing! You think I'm a Platonist or something?"

At this point, the kindly old arbiter arrived at the board, and placed a friendly hand on Wiede's shoulder. "Look, my friend, it is clearly in your best interests to allow the knight promotion with mate. I have watched your play, and the only way you'll ever reach immortality in chess is to go for negative immortality. You can be another Kieseritsky! Another Dufresne! Another Levitsky! You may even outrank Systemsson!

Wiede's response to this was one of those Lower Slobbovian words with which I am not familiar, but perhaps that's for the best. What I can tell is that he gave up chess forever and changed his name to Charles Berlitz.

Premium Chessgames Member
  fm avari viraf: < Phony Benoni: Lovely story about Wiede vs Goetz 1880, I went thro' twice & enjoyed. > You are now on my favourite list.
Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: Excellent piece of "detective work" by Phony Benoni! Thanks!
Premium Chessgames Member
  Infohunter: <Rubenus: <MorphyMatt: moving nothing but king and pawns can't be good...> There is a ten-move-game in one of my game collections in which white only moves his pawns...and wins!>

<Rubenus: It is Kujoth vs Fashingbauer, 1950 (the first ten moves were all pawn moves).>

Ever see this one: Marshall vs H Rogosin, 1940 ?

Premium Chessgames Member
  Infohunter: <stevenmeow: when i manually drag the pawn to capture the rook, it turns into a queen.

is there a way to fix this?>

Just before you make the move to promote the Pawn, right-click the board. One of the items on the pop-up menu will say "Pawn promotes to..." followed by a drop-menu of choices. Select your choice, then make your move, and the Pawn will promote to the piece of your choice.

Premium Chessgames Member
  WannaBe: That's one fast moving pawn!!
Premium Chessgames Member
  Penguincw: Um. White played pretty poorly in this game.
Mar-18-12  Brecker: 4. g3?!
5. h3?
6. Ke2??
7. Kf2???
This is the troll 2 of chess games...
Apr-08-12  kontoleon: this is look like helpmate!
Mar-25-13  Abdel Irada: <McCool: He got Wiede -d, 3. b3?????? WOW>

Amazingly, 3. b3 is a real line; it's called the Orsini Variation. I'm not sure it's precisely what one would call a *good* choice for White, but it's not a forced loss.

The game didn't really venture into Miniatureville until Wiede destroyed his own kingside with 4. g3? and sealed his fate with 5. h3?? (There's no point criticizing 6. Ke2 or 7. Kf2 because both moves were forced.)

Mar-25-13  apexin: <Phony Benoni>
Funny story there.
Hehe, Black played like me after after 0,5 litre of bolshevik vodka. Thats the best Russian discovery, accually. Maybe only the Lajka dog beats it.
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <Abdel Irada: Amazingly, 3. b3 is a real line; it's called the Orsini Variation. I'm not sure it's precisely what one would call a *good* choice for White, but it's not a forced loss.>

This idea is stronger in the Becker Defence (3.Nf3 h6 4.b3), which the late Woodley Chapman once played against me in a Boston Met League match.

Jun-22-14  GumboGambit: For Black:

"As Good As It Goetz"

Jun-22-14  Conrad93: The Orsini Gambit is an inferior version of the Tumbleweed Variation, which in itself is an inferior version of the King's Gambit, and the King's Gambit is just an inferior variation in the King's Pawn opening.

Three times the failure in one game. Impressive.

Jun-22-14  Conrad93: But then again I have to measure my incredible success against these patzers, so it's not really fair...
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <conrag: Three times the failure in one game. Impressive.>

For all that, in no wise as impressive as your failure at every turn.

Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: As others have noted, one shouldn't move just pawns and one's king. Better to move pawns, knights, and queen:

1.e4 c5 2.c3 Nf6 3.e5 Nd5 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nf3 e6 6.c4 Ne7 7.Nxd4 Qa5+ 8.Nc3 Qxe5+ 9.Be2 Nbc6 10.Nb5 Ng6 11.f4 Nxf4 12.Bxf4 Qxf4 13.Rf1 Qxh2 14.Qd3 a6 15.Nd4 Qh4+ 0-1 Decman-Rhine, Master Challenge III, 1981

Jun-30-14  Wyatt Gwyon: <Conrad> Please tell us about your "incredible success." Thanks in advance.
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: White's opening makes the Wannabe Gambit look solid in comparison.
Jun-20-17  petemccabe: I remember the John Nunn puzzle that goes: construct a game that begins with 1.e4 and ends on the 5th move with knight takes Rook mate. I think this game is where Nunn got his inspiration.
Premium Chessgames Member
  offramp: What Alphonse wants Alphonse Goetz.
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