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| Jun-05-16 | | patzer2: <LoveThatJoker: <CG Librarian> Thank you for having corrected the game result from '1-0' to '0-1'!
LTJ
PS. It should be noted that "16...?" Black to play and win, would not make for a good puzzle because, according to Stockfish, White has 17. Rd1 holding. "17...?" Black to play and win, however, would make for a good Saturday/Sunday puzzle.> <CG> Given that 16...Ne4 17. Rd1 = is a spoiler, perhaps it's not too late to make 17...? today's Sunday, Black to move and win puzzle. |
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Jun-05-16
 | | Once: Weird week continues with a puzzle that is not really a puzzle. As Patzer2 has pointed out, black can do no more than draw with either 16...Ne4 or 16...Rxd2 (my pick). In the game, white goes wrong with 16...Ne4 17. 0-0-0, which walks into a pretty attack. But instead 17. Rd1 and the best black has is Patzer2's draw by repetition. I suppose we could say that 16...Ne4 is an interesting speculative attack which has good practical merit because it gives white a chance to go wrong. But unless silicon finds something interesting, this one is a bust. |
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| Jun-05-16 | | agb2002: I know this game. |
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Jun-05-16
 | | chessgames.com: I just had a late night chat with User: Kev to make sure that this puzzle is correct as 16...? He said that it was a brilliancy of Palacios' that he came across while researching the recently deceased Pomar. He was unaware of Stockfish's drawing variation, which if I understand correctly might run something like this: 17.Rd1 c4 18. fxe4 Qxe4 19. Rg1 Ne5 20. Bc3 Nf3+ 21. Kf1 Nh2+ 22. Ke1 Nf3+ 23. Kf1 Nh2+ 24. Ke1 Nf3+ with perpetual 
click for larger viewThat's a pretty variation. There is obviously much more to say about the position, but I think this means that 16...Ne4!! really is much better than 16...Rxd2 in terms of practical winning chances, (i.e. if you don't have Stockfish by your side.) Conclusion: 16...Ne4!! is at least in some sense the best move, so the puzzle stands. If you feel cheated, we're sorry; at least we've provided something to talk about. R.I.P. Arturo Pomar Salamanca |
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| Jun-05-16 | | WorstPlayerEver: I think the insane puzzles are good for one's intuition.
I took a look at this one for about 20 seconds and could not sense how to win with Black. My intuition was based on positional grounds; Bishops vs Knights. It's highly instructive how tricky the Knights are though; positionally speaking. |
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| Jun-05-16 | | mel gibson: DR4 64 bit agrees with the text move but calls it a draw: 16... Nf6-e4
17 Ra1-d1 Ne4xd2
depth 20.
Therefore White didn't make the right defense. |
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| Jun-05-16 | | morfishine: The Prida Madrid
<16...Rxd2>
***** |
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| Jun-05-16 | | schachfuchs: Me too, I saw the two options 16...Rxd2 and 16...Ne4, but having looked a bit at 16...Ne4 17.Rd1 without getting any "insane" idea, I quickly go to the solution.
So, I would say the rating "insane" is not correct for 16...Ne4, it's "only" the best "in terms of practical winning chances" as mentioned above. |
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| Jun-05-16 | | King.Arthur.Brazil: I hit very little ... 16 ... NE4 ! OK. I didn't see the fantastic Ne5, I thought about Qf6!, equally I fail to see the move Qa7! but find Qb8, again dind't get Qa8! move. The following I sellect the same moves but these are easy. Today is not a good chess' day for me. Happens... |
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| Jun-05-16 | | BOSTER: The unprotected queen on a7 looks like grapes for black queen-fox e7.
But black knights are too far from invasion in white camp.
"They are probably sour anyway"-said the queen e7. |
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| Jun-05-16 | | Clemens Scheitz: Arturito Pomar passed away just a couple of days ago. I think it would've been a little more respectful to make a puzzle from a game that he actually won. |
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| Jun-05-16 | | YouRang: I looked at today's puzzle, and noticed that white's main threat was to capture the Rb2. How to extract it?
16...Ne4! is probably most clever. But 16...Qe5 (guarding Bg2/c3 directly) also looks playable. |
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| Jun-05-16 | | YouRang: <Clemens Scheitz> Good point. |
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| Jun-05-16 | | Patriot: I settled on 16...Ne4 but certainly didn't consider all the possibilities such as 17.O-O-O although I did consider 17.O-O. |
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| Jun-05-16 | | BOSTER: The idia with 17...Ne5 even as result of the wrong white play is very nice, and can be used in many games. |
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| Jun-05-16 | | mccarthpm: if pawn take knight and Q takes pawn is white allowed to castle kingside?? |
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Jun-05-16
 | | maxi: <mccarthpm> Absolutely. |
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Jun-05-16
 | | OhioChessFan: <mccarth> yes, and that would include Queenside, which is clearly what you were asking, and I'm sure <maxi> figured that out too. |
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Jun-05-16
| | maxi: <OhioChessFan> What da ya mean, you can castel on that side too? |
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| Jun-06-16 | | stst: Late to game
One possible line:
19...........Ne4
20.fxe4 (*) Qxe4
21.Rg1/h2 Qd3
22.Rd1 c4
23.Qa6 Nc5
24.Qb5 Qf5 (ready to N+ and take Q)
25.Qxc4 (see the bait) Nd3+
26.Kf1 (Ke2, same result) Qxf2#
(*) Of course White may pass this offer, but if so, any move, then Rxd2 is very destructive. |
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| Jun-06-16 | | stst: just one minute late, then the next day, then, the original "insane" got really insane, the entire configuration changed,..., hence I didn't see the real solution. it's all weird, even without the castling.... |
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| Jun-06-16 | | stst: oh, i got it now.
the original given configuration starts with 19..... but now when the next day, it becomes 16.....
CG needs to be cognizant of such errors/mistakes...
yet I scored the first N-offer. the game went long castle, ok, but then black missed the N-fork for any of the two Rs
eventually i doubt the actual game is really given the "best" solution?! <there were numerous previous examples that even CG itself commented the player missed better moves than those essayed in the actual game.> |
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| Jun-06-16 | | Moszkowski012273: It's actually a dead even position after 16...Ne4 17.Rd1... |
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| Jun-06-16 | | Moszkowski012273: Whoops! And thanks for clarifying above Chessgames! |
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Jul-24-22
 | | GrahamClayton: Nice triangular queen maneuvre by Palacios with 18...Qa7, 19...Qb8 and 20...Qa8. |
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