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| Feb-21-07 | | who: <who> <I looked up this line in "Winning with the Philidor" by Tony Kosten and he says that Larsen/Gipslis said that this line refutes the whole 3...f5. He thinks they are wrong because of 8...h6 9.Nh3? Bxh3 10.gxh3 where black has compensation. Of course, white just plays 9.Nge4 and black has nothing for the pawn.> what idiot recommended 9.Nge4 dropping a knight (I must have been looking at a different position -maybe I was looking at 6...Nf6 7.f3 e3 8.Bxe3 e6). A better option is 9.g4! with either 9...Bc8 10.Nh3 or 9...hxg5 10.gxf5 where both sides have almost identical weaknesses but white's up a pawn. |
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| Feb-21-07 | | who: I should just point out that despite the fact that I believe 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 f5 to be completely unsound I play it as black all the time. Almost noone plays 4.exf5 and after 4.dxe5 you have a somewhat normal tactically open position. |
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| May-14-07 | | PAWNTOEFOUR: tpstar..thanks..i encounter the philidor a lot on playchess too,but most guys go 3....bg4 and then i'm usually smiling when they do...thanks |
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| Jun-17-07 | | larsenfan: What about the book Winning With The Philidor ? Can anyone tell whether it is worth? |
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| Aug-04-07 | | GotGoose: Today I pulled of Legall's Mate twice in a row versus two different people. Once as White and Black. As white:
1.e4 e5 2.d4 Nc6 3.Nf3 d6 4.Bc4 h6 5.Nc3 Bg4 6.Nxe5 Bxd1 7.Bxf7+ Ke7 8.Nd5# 1-0 As black:
1.Nc3 d5 2.e3 e5 3.d3 Nf6 4.e4 Bc5 5.Bg5 Nc6 6.exd5 Ne4 7.Bxd8 Bxf2+ 8.Ke2 Nd4# 0-1 |
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| Aug-06-07 | | get Reti: I'm starting to like the philidor as black (when black plays 3...Nf6). It kind of reminds me of the Colle, where you store a lot of energy in your constricted pieces and then once you free them(if you can), it's all let out in a great attack (like e4 in the Colle). Black can free himself in the Philidor by playing exd5 later and then Ne5 or Nc5, or sometimes by playing Nb6 with a view to play d5. |
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| Sep-01-07 | | drukenknight: Here we go again w/ the same triple attack on f7 only this time, ..Be7 and this time black chooses Nh5 to hit the Q rather than ..Qd8 anyone have an idea on this continuation..? 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. c3 Nf6 4. Qa4 Be7 5. Bc4 O-O 6. Ng5 a6 7. Qb3 Na5 8. Nxf7 and now..!? Would you believe this has come up twice tonight at blitz. What do YOU think? |
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| Dec-21-07 | | parisattack: <get Reti: I'm starting to like the philidor as black (when black plays 3...Nf6).> Me, too. Have never played it but studying now - Pickett's old monograph and the new Philidor Files. If you play it with Old Indian its sort of a complete Black defense...I think its as good for Black as those stodgy old closed Lopez variations and lots of unmined lines, IMHO. I notice quite a few 2500+ players giving it a whirl of late. |
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| Dec-21-07 | | utssb: <GotGoose:
As white:
1.e4 e5 2.d4 Nc6 3.Nf3 d6 4.Bc4 h6 5.Nc3 Bg4 6.Nxe5 Bxd1 7.Bxf7+ Ke7 8.Nd5# 1-0> What if Black plays 6...Nxe5 7.Be2 Bxe2 8.Qxe2 Nd7? It looks like Black is better. Although it is a nice trick. |
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| Jan-04-08 | | jamesmaskell: Ive faced this opening before, winning a piece with a simple trap very early on but losing after some howling errors. I faced it again last night and was much better prepared for it. 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Be7 6. Bc4 O-O 7. Be3 Bd7 8. g4 h6 9. Nf5 Nc6 10. Rg1 Bxf5 11. gxf5 Kh8 12. Qd2 Ne5 13. Be2 Ng8 14. O-O-O Bf6 15. Rg3 a6 16. Rdg1 b5 17. Rh3 Kh7 18. Nd5 Nc4 19. Bxc4 bxc4 20. Nxf6+ Qxf6 21. Bd4 Qe7 22. Rxg7+ Black resigns 1-0 I wouldnt touch the Philidor because I find the d6 pawn rather restrictive. Then again thats because I play the Ruy and prefer the strategic challenge... |
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| Jan-09-08 | | Alphastar: I play the exchange philidor often as black. It is very rare when white knows theory, and if he does, black almost always knows more. It is rare when I do not have an advantage or equality by move 10. |
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| Aug-01-08 | | Silverstrike: An interesting loss of mine in this opening:
Julius Schwartz (1647) v Ed Perry (1898)
April the 14th 2007
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 Nf6 4.dxe5 Nxe4 5.Qd5 Nc5 6.Bg5 Qd7 7.Nc3 c6 8.Qd2 d5 9.0-0-0 Ne6 10.Bd3 Be7 11.h4 h6 12.Bxe7 Qxe7 13.g4 Nd7 14.g5 hxg5 15.hxg5 Rxh1 16.Rxh1 Ndf8 17.g6 Nxg6 18.Bxg6 fxg6 19.Rh8+ Nf8 20.Qe3 Bf5 21.Nd4 Kd7 22.Qf4 Ne6 23.Nxe6 Rxh8 24.Nd4 Rh4 25.Qe3 Rh1+ 26.Kd2 b6 27.a4 Be6 28.a5 Rh3 29.f3 g5 30.axb6 axb6 31.Nxe6 Qxe6 32.Qxg5 Qh6 33.Qxh6 gxh6 34.Ke3 Ke6 35.Kf4 Rh2 36.Resigns |
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| Sep-20-08 | | just a kid: How come Philidor never played the Philidor? |
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| Jan-07-09 | | blacksburg: here's a good way to get into a philidor without allowing the king's gambit, vienna, etc. 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 Nbd7 4.Nc3 e5. 4.f4 e5 also works. white doesn't have a very good way to usefully avoid this transposition, no good way to stop ...e5. |
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| Mar-29-09 | | mrandersson: Does any one else here think the lion defence for black is quite strong? even with the f4 push for white i think black can still have a good game. |
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| Mar-29-09 | | chessman95: <Does any one else here think the lion defence for black is quite strong?> I had to google that one. It looks like a passive but probably solid defense to me. (In case you don't know, it's when black plays a KIA reversed... or is that just a KID?) |
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| Mar-29-09 | | KingG: <Does any one else here think the lion defence for black is quite strong?> Yes, it's solid, but I like Shirov's gambit in reply: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 Nf6 4.Nc3 Nbd7 5.g4!?. A few examples:
Shirov vs M Klinova, 2006
I Nepomniachtchi vs S Hautot, 2006
Shirov vs L Cyborowski, 2008 |
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| Mar-29-09 | | parisattack: <KingG: <Does any one else here think the lion defence for black is quite strong?>
Yes, it's solid, but I like Shirov's gambit in reply: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 Nf6 4.Nc3 Nbd7 5.g4!?.> Small section on 5. g4 and also 5. g3 in Vauer's book The Philidor Files. Probably a good way to catch the slow black build-up. But I think the Philidor/Old Indian/Lion makes a decent repertoire for black... I like the Franco-Benoni setup also - 1. e4(d4), e6; 2. d4(e4) c5...avoiding an early ...Nf6 as a complete black rep. |
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| Mar-31-09 | | FiveofSwords: ive often expiramented with philidor, and lion-esque sort of stuff. I can say its fine, im sure, and its good for a win against a weaker opponent. But its really hard to play imo, cause you have to always be very vigilant for aggresive ideas and always be sortof a step ahead of the opponent. If they play ordinary stuff then you can expect to do very well, but if they are creative and do weird stuff (that might feel unsound but hard to refute sort of thing), then practically speaking these openings and the approach is just hard. A lot of the tactics have very wide trees and a lot of only partly forcing moves. |
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Apr-05-09
 | | Stonehenge: The lion: http://www.vanrekom.nl/thelion/inde... |
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| Apr-05-09 | | parisattack: <FiveofSwords: ive often expiramented with philidor, and lion-esque sort of stuff. I can say its fine, im sure, and its good for a win against a weaker opponent. But its really hard to play imo, cause you have to always be very vigilant for aggresive ideas and always be sortof a step ahead of the opponent. If they play ordinary stuff then you can expect to do very well, but if they are creative and do weird stuff (that might feel unsound but hard to refute sort of thing), then practically speaking these openings and the approach is just hard. A lot of the tactics have very wide trees and a lot of only partly forcing moves.> Astute, valuable comment. I found the identical issue with playing the Robatsch... |
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| Apr-05-09 | | chessman95: <<FiveofSwords: ive often expiramented with philidor, and lion-esque sort of stuff. I can say its fine, im sure, and its good for a win against a weaker opponent. But its really hard to play imo, cause you have to always be very vigilant for aggresive ideas and always be sortof a step ahead of the opponent. If they play ordinary stuff then you can expect to do very well, but if they are creative and do weird stuff (that might feel unsound but hard to refute sort of thing), then practically speaking these openings and the approach is just hard. A lot of the tactics have very wide trees and a lot of only partly forcing moves.> Astute, valuable comment. I found the identical issue with playing the Robatsch...> You should remember that the best openings are usually NOT forcing in their moves, and thus require a lot of preperation. Forcing openings like the Scandinavian are not considered to be especially strong, compared to unforcing openings like the Sicilian which have all kinds of different ways it can go. |
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| Apr-05-09 | | drukenknight: What exactly defines the Lion? I remember reading an entire internet article on this and I recall it looked just like Philidors. In the article most of the games had blacks Ns retreating to e.g. g8, h6 etc..Is that what makes it Lion? |
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| Apr-05-09 | | refutor: the lion is the line given above
< 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 Nf6 4.Nc3 Nbd7> |
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| Apr-26-09 | | drukenknight: 3 c3 meets the Philidor; blacks ...Bg4 meets Qb3 problem. A lot of amateurs like to get the early ...Bg4 in this but it is not advisable vs c3. I believe Chigorin championed the early...Bg4 in other variations of the philidor. The following game shows some basic ideas in this version: 1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 d6
3. c3 Bg4
4. Qb3 Bxf3 (...b6 maybe the only way to play)
5. Qxb7 Nd7
6. gxf3 Ngf6
7. Bb5 h6
8. d3 Be7
9. Rg1
Position after 9 Rg1; some tactical ideas are the pinned pawn on g7 (after ...00); the N on e7 to hold the Nd6, as Q has to hold the Ra8. Whites Bs and R contributes to these tactics. 
click for larger view9…Nh5 (Rb8 is much simpler and another recurring tactic having to do with tempo in this) 10. Bxd7+ Kxd7
11. Be3 (Qa4+ was better to prevent the loss of tempo from Rb8) ….Rb8
12. Qxa7 Rxb2
13. Qa3 Qb8
Position after 13...Qb8. Now what?
click for larger view |
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