Try posting your inquiry here:

User: Phony Benoni

This is a wonderful suggestion, and I think it would greatly improve the accuracy of this database, not to mention make things easier for the dedicated members who are currently administering the <biography> entries on the Player Pages.

On the GM vs World page, the voting line composition is:

Entry box for "Move"
small tick-box for "offer draw"
large button for "Submit/Change your move".

On the ChessBookie bet placing pages, the betting line composition is:

Entry box for "Wager"
small tick-box for "confirm"
large button for "Place Bet".

OK, you knew that. ;) But the thing is that, because of this similarity, more than once I've caught myself ticking the "offer draw" box on the GM vs World page, because I'm just used to "confirming my entry" from the Bookie game, when offering a draw is about the last thing I mean to do.

Of course I can always resubmit the vote minus the draw offer when I notice what happened, but people may do the same thing and just move on after voting, without double-checking.

About the confusion between "confirmation" and "draw offer" check boxes, you are correct, that is a little misleading. Admins can see an additional area on the Chessgames Challenge with its own confirmation box, and I have personally confused myself with that little box.

We don't think that it should be necessary to change the interface drastically, but with your observation in mind we want to make absolutely sure that people who offer a draw are informed about what they did. E.g., a message to the effect of "You voted for 11.a4, and you also offered a draw. You may change your vote anytime before 14:00 EDT". That way if somebody accidentally offers a draw they will have an opportunity to change their mistake.

<About making <<<"Biography Central",>>> that's a good idea. Of course any biographer could volunteer their chess forum for this purpose but it's a much better approach if we sanction one officially for this purpose.>

I agree it would be much, much better- particularly if you put "chessgames" as part of the title and used and avatar similar to your <golden knight>.

If you did this, the forum would be more Public, more Authoritative, and more Recognizable. It would consequently be more likely to be used regularly, and make it easier for our <member historians who administer the Player biographies> to be contacted by <interested other members> who find additions or inaccuracies in the Player biographies.

Much, much more likely to be used.

I'd be extremely happy if you did this- then I wouldn't have to track down <Phony Benoni> or <Benzol> when I find something that might profitably be altered, as I did recently. Because I happened to know where to post my request- <Phony Benoni> instantly acted on the suggestion.

If I hadn't known that <Phony Benoni> could help, I probably would have pestered you folks here, or posted it on the Player Page kibbutz box- where it would likely have languished- maybe for years, without being read or acted upon. Or worse, just forgotten about it altogether.

Hello (It's <jessicafischerqueen> here)!

Thank you for your understanding, and advice. The password is not the same, but thanks for the warning.

Also, thanks for fixing the games list on the <Alexander Flamberg> page.

<There are a couple of player names that need to be merged: 1) Stasch Mlotkowski and Stasch Mlotkowsky are the same player. Mlotkowsk<i> seems to be the preferred spelling in contemporary records.> OK, check.

<2) Eugene Shrader, Eugene Wesley Shrader, and Eugen Schrader are the same player. This is probably made more confusing with Edward Schrader playing in the same event.> OK, check.

Some quick research shows that many online databases show the name as "Shrader". However if this fellow is German that spelling looks very bizarre to our eyes. It might be a case of one database copying another's mistakes. Therefore we listed him tentatively as "Schrader", but if you believe that Shrader is truly the preferred spelling please let us know.

<This leads me to a broader question: when I submit missing games, is it more important to normalize names with what we already have or to use the fullest version of the name? Sources vary, and perhaps more importantly, does merging and reconciliation have to be done on a case by case basis? I'd lean toward the full name, but not if it's going to create extra work.>

This touches on matters that a lot of people are confused about so let me take a minute to give you a peek at the machinery hiding behind the scenes.

Behind each "official name" (the name that you see when you pull up the player record) is a long list of alternate spellings that are visible only to admins. When we combine player records new spells are adding to this list. For example now that we have merged Mlotkowsky with Mlotkowski it no longer matters which spelling we receive. The database "learns" in that respect, albeit slowly.

We have no hard-and-fast rule about whether to include middle names in our player records. It goes on a case by case basis, usually with some logic behind it. In cases like Tigran Petrosian it is critical to include the middle name, because there are several Tigran Petrosians. In other cases the person is famously known by all three names (e.g., Robert James Fischer) and it would seem incorrect to leave out the middle name. However, in most cases, we leave the middle name out, or mention it only in the biography.

To answer your question <does merging and reconciliation have to be done on a case by case basis?> Yes, but only once per "spelling". Once we learn that "Stasch Mlotkowsky" is the same as "Stasch Mlotkowski" then both names are acceptable and will end up pointing to the same player record.

<is it more important to normalize names with what we already have or to use the fullest version of the name?> You really could go either way. If you give us a middle name there is a chance that two records will be created that require normalization, but don't think of that as a bad thing--think of it as a temporary state of affairs which, once resolved, will make the database "smarter".

No matter which route you choose there will always be the chance that two player records are created for the same person, but that's not the end of the world.

One caveat: if the name is very ordinary (John Smith, Hans Schmidt, Jose Martinez, etc.) you should always include a middle name.

Some quick research shows that many online databases show the name as "Shrader". However if this fellow is German that spelling looks very bizarre to our eyes. It might be a case of one database copying another's mistakes. Therefore we listed him tentatively as "Schrader", but if you believe that Shrader is truly the preferred spelling please let us know.>

Thanks. Here is the list of players from <American Chess Bulletin> of 1904:

<The players who entered were:—Frank J. Marshall, George J. Schwietzer and Charles Jaffe New York; E. Kemeny,. L. Uedemann and L. Eisenberg, of Chicago; S. Mlotkowski, of Philadelphia; Max Judd and E. Schrader, of St. Louis; Dr. E. W. Shrader, of Moberly, Mo.>

THE PROBLEM:

There are so very many player records that the job of normalizing the player names is a herculean task that our admins are not able to properly tackle.

THE SOLUTION:

Volunteer biographers would acquire a new ability: to have it within their power to merge player records all by themselves, without the need to post a request here, or submit a correction slip, or any other fanfare.

COMMENTS:

No single person is a jack-of-all-trades when it comes to this job. It requires knowledge of foreign names and transliteration conventions, diligent research, and common sense. By its very nature, it's a job that is best shared among various specialists. Many names like German and Icelandic follow fairly strict conventions that one can learn over time, but unless you grew up there it won't come naturally. The person who is very good at Asian names may know very little of Russian/Slavic transliterations, while the Slavic specialists could be baffled by American conventions. Spanish names are a science unto themselves. And so on.

We have about 70,000 names in our player database. It's hard to imagine how big the number 70,000 really is. One might say "it's the average number of meals that you will eat in your lifetime" but that doesn't really put it in perspective. Let's put it this way: suppose a dedicated person was hired by CG for only one hour each day to normalize player names, they work Monday-Friday unfailingly. Suppose that they could process one player every five minutes (either fixing their record or confirming that it's OK if no fixes are needed.) Sometimes it would require research into FIDE's database, or elsewhere online, but other times simply a logical guess is all that would be required. That person's one-hour-per-day job would finally be completed in about TWENTY TWO YEARS! Even more disheartening is the fact that after those 22 years, thousands of new names will have entered the database and their mission would begin anew.

However, suppose that 200 trustworthy volunteers dedicated the same one hour per day. In that case we could accomplish the same thing in just a little over one month.

What's more, the "5 minutes" estimate above may be a little extreme. The HARD names can take 30 minutes to sort out, but easy ones just require a little "check" and you move right on. This project actually could be probably done in a week, if we had enough help.

Over time, of course new names would enter the chess scene, but we're confident that these would be pounced upon by volunteer admins quicker than you can say "Junior Championship."

We are very excited about this prospect. What is required is that we make a positively bulletproof software system so that all mistakes, whether done by accident or downright sabotage, are completely reversible. We already have such a system for the biographies but our lack of such protections with the name database is what has prevented us from making this a volunteer effort in the past.

<SwitchingQuylthulg: Incidentally, how are these alternative name forms assigned? I'd sort of assumed there would be some automation involved, but if the original PGN had "Buck" then I can't see how the misspelling could have been created by anyone other than a human.>

Both of these are the result of human error. Names have a "short form" which is manually input, that's what allows us to have concise links such as

Petrosian vs Fischer, 1958

and not

Tigran Vartanovich Petrosian vs Robert James Fischer, 1958

However our software does not automatically decide what the appropriate "short form" is for a player, and indeed, many players are not important enough to even have a "short form" yet.