< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Dec-27-05|| ||Caissanist: Yes, that seems to be the difference; Fischer apparently considers the Dragon weak only if black has to face the Yugoslav Attack. Fischer seems never to have played the Dragon as black against 1. e4, but he doesn't mind transposing into it after 1. c4, when there is no possibility of facing the Yugoslav.|
|Nov-25-06|| ||Kriegspiel: Well, both of Fischer's Dragon games (as Black) use an accelerated fianchetto -- so that, apparently, is the key in avoiding the Yugoslav Attack variants. Playing the Accelerated Dragon allows Black to avoid the Yugoslav Attack but White has the option of the Maroczy Bind. What happens if White insists on attempting a YA against an AD? Why is it such a bad idea for White to persist? Apparently, the Accelerated Dragon is a more "positional" opening than the Standard Dragon, but again I wonder why exactly.|
|Nov-25-06|| ||Kriegspiel: OK, here are some comments copied from the first page of B34:|
<Mar-26-04 morphyvsfischer: The Yugoslav fails against the Accelerated Dragon because Black can play ...d5 real quick, and trying to hold off Bc4 gets that advance in, while the d4 knight is still vulnerable to the classic ...Nxe4 and the double attack on the d4 knight by the horse on c6 and the infamous 'Dragon Bishop'. I have tried it and failed miserably in my own anaylsis, so even I, who often play very sharp attacks, go for the Maroczy Bind. I also play the Dragon as Black and for a time the Accelerated Dragon as well.>
<Mar-27-04 morphyvsfischer: whoops I meant playing f3 gives Black time for ...d5!>
|Nov-25-06|| ||RookFile: Well, the first move of the game was a tip-off that Fischer would not have to face his own Bc4 as black.|
|Nov-27-06|| ||Kriegspiel: <RookFile> So far as *I* can see, the real reason why the Accelerated Dragon prevents the Yugoslav Attack is that it utilizes differences between the Accelerated and Standard Dragons to prevent White from castling queenside -- something of a prerequisite given the exposure a kingside pawnstorm will produce.|
|Nov-28-06|| ||plang: I don't consider the marocsy bind to be a dragon and either does the Informant opening system (B36 is not part of the dragon system)|
|Nov-28-06|| ||Kriegspiel: <plang> Yes, it is. There are two types of Dragon: the Standard Dragon and the Accelerated Dragon. "Sicilian, Accelerated Fianchetto" is just another name for Accelerated Dragon.|
|Nov-28-06|| ||RookFile: So, when the game opened with 1. c4, that was not a tip-off to you that you weren't going to get the Yugoslav attack (Bc4) against the dragon?|
|Nov-29-06|| ||Kriegspiel: <Rookfile> Please stop tilting at windmills. The point I was trying to make is that, even when White DOES play Bc4 (7.Bc4 is in fact played in one of the two main lines of the Accelerated Dragon, after 5.Nc3 and 6.Be3), the reason why the Accelerated Dragon avoids the Yugoslav Attack, and the Standard Dragon does not, is that in the Accelerated Dragon, Black can use the differences between the two openings to prevent White from castling queenside. Only this prevents the YA, since the YA involves a kingside pawnstorm, and without queenside castling the White king's position would be unsafe. |
|Nov-29-06|| ||RookFile: Let me take this opportunity to point out another reason why Fischer played the game this way. This entire game, every move of it, was played before - in the Petrosian vs. Spassky world championship match of 1969. So, Fischer took this opportunity to play it this way, because he knew he could get a draw with black. Petrosian, of course, had no desire to play another 20 useless moves, like he did against Spassky.|
Spassky vs Petrosian, 1969
|Dec-01-06|| ||plang: "Yes, it is. There are two types of Dragon: the Standard Dragon and the Accelerated Dragon. "Sicilian, Accelerated Fianchetto" is just another name for Accelerated Dragon."|
Well, I guess this is semantics but I think that your opinion is a minority one. I would challenge you to find a book on the dragon that includes the Maroczy bind. The one I have certainly doesn't. The subject came up because someone expressed surprise that Fischer was playing the "dragon". My response would be that the maroczy bind results in a very different type of structure than the main line dragon and that Fischer felt confortable in this position.
|Dec-01-06|| ||Kriegspiel: <plang> Your challenge was easily met by a quick search of Google using the keywords "maroczy bind" "accelerated dragon" "book review". Here is the first one in a large number of return hits:|
Note the following comment taken from the above-referenced page: "This book covers all lines of the Accelerated Dragon including the variety of systems played vs. the Maroczy Bind and alternative set-ups."
|Dec-02-06|| ||plang: My point was that the accelerated dragon is not part of the dragon defense proper and is not included in any book on the dragon defense. Your example does not respond to that in any regard.|
|Dec-02-06|| ||Kriegspiel: <plang> Well, it's hardly worth arguing with you. First you claim that the Sicilian, Accelerated Fianchetto is not a dragon system; when it is pointed out to you that this is just another name for the Accelerated Dragon you suggest, falsely, that this is "a minority opinion". Then, you challenged me to name a book on the Dragon that deals with the Maroczy Bind, and when I name one such (offhand, out of many), you now say that your point is that the Accelerated Dragon "is not part of the dragon defense proper", by which you evidently mean the Standard Dragon. Nobody ever suggested that the Accelerated Dragon was the Standard Dragon, just that: (a) "Sicilian, Accelerated Fianchetto" IS the Accelerated Dragon; (b) The Accelerated Dragon is a type of Sicilian, Dragon system; (c) One may come up against the Maroczy Bind if one plays the Accelerated Dragon. There is nothing controversial about any of these statements.|
|Dec-02-06|| ||thegoodanarchist: The Yugoslav attack is also called the Saint George attack, right? Can anyone answer this, please?|
|Dec-02-06|| ||Eric Schiller: <thegoodanarchist> The St,. George is 1.e4 a6, a totally different opening. The Accelerated Dragon and Dragon are two different openings, but there are many transpositions between them. Very few players use both in their repertoire on a regular basis because the Dragon appeals to brawlers and the Acc. Dragon is more positional.|
|Dec-02-06|| ||Rocafella: <thegood...> Are you thinking of the English attack in the Najdorf?
|Dec-02-06|| ||Rocafella: Oh no, you're probably not.. lol|
|Dec-03-06|| ||Kriegspiel: <Rocafella> Right now I'm more interested in the English Defence. 1.d4 e6 2.c4 b6|
Anyone know anything about this, or the proper page for it?
|Dec-04-06|| ||plang: The Informant code for the English Defense is A40 but several other miscellaneous openings share this code.|
|Dec-04-06|| ||RookFile: Try this:
|Apr-16-07|| ||FSR: "Accelerated Dragon" is a common name (IMO more common than "Accelerated Fianchetto") for 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 g6. As far as I know, Fischer never played that move order. This game opened with 1.c4, and Fischer transposed into the Maroczy Bind (5.c4 in the line above). Instead of 5.c4, White can play 5.Nc3 and then follow up with Be3, f3, etc. -- a "Pseudo-Yugoslav Attack." Black can either allow transposition to a normal Yugoslav or deviate in various ways. See books by Donaldson/Silman and others for the details. Since Fischer didn't play the standard Accelerated Dragon move order, but only transposed into it after White had already played c4 (and thus could not play the Yugoslav Attack), this game in no way suggests that Fischer has repudiated his views on the Dragon.|
|Jan-11-08|| ||Eyal: Btw, the other Fischer game that transposes into an Accelerated Fianchetto/Dragon opening from 1.c4 c5 etc. is Larsen vs Fischer, 1971.|
|Dec-21-11|| ||ewan14: ( RookFile )
and this is also the game where Petrosian wanted to show Fischer he could draw with ( playing ) white ! !
'' Russians v Fischer ''
|Apr-18-13|| ||RookFile: If so, he made the same mistake that the Allies made when they landed on the beaches at Anzio. They could have been enjoying coffee and donuts in 3 hours in Rome, but were sure that the Germans were going to attack. Instead of attacking when they had the chance, they waited for the opposition to strengthen themselves.|
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