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Oct-15-10
 | | chancho: Congrats to Vladimir Kramnik on his tournament win. |
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| Oct-15-10 | | marcwordsmith: Was Qc6 a blunder or a magnanimous act of mercy? |
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Oct-15-10
 | | chessgames.com: That's it folks, tournament is over! Congratulations to Vladimir Kramnik for his impressive performance. Chessgames also thanks everybody who came by to see the live broadcast of the Bilbao Masters Finals at our site. Your questions, commentary, and very presence make these events so special. We hope to do this again very soon. |
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| Oct-15-10 | | Ulhumbrus: With the move 44 Qc6 Anand has done something similar to what Kramnik did in the game Carlsen vs Kramnik, 2010 when he played 41..Rg5, leaving White's pieces alone and developing the Rook to b5. As Black's pieces are threatening nothing at the moment Anand just leaves them alone and develops his Queen to c6. However he may have overlooked that the move ...Qc1 leads to a draw. |
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| Oct-15-10 | | e4ia: <marcwordsmith: Was Qc6 a blunder or a magnanimous act of mercy?> That's interesting! I'd say a semi-blunder to compromise;
but a figher would play Qxd6 with that line being "winning" =/- 1.21 at chessok, which in fact annotoated Qc6? therefore being a bluder at their level! Anand had plenty of time, I think ten more minutes than Magnus, to calculate the lines after 44Qxd6!...and Mag would be very "unnerved" as black in that line! |
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| Oct-15-10 | | SetNoEscapeOn: This felt like a wc match game to me. |
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| Oct-15-10 | | e4ia: I meant  1.21 as in this copy/paste
<( 44. Qxd6 Rxf3 45. h4 ! 45... Qf4 46. gxf3 Qxh4 47. Qb8 Qh3 48. Qxe5 Bd7 49. Qb8+ Bf8 50. Kf2 h5 51. Ke3 Qg2 52. Qb7 Bh3 53. d6 Be6 54. Qb5 ♖ybka Aquarium (0:01:12) +1.21|d epth 16 White has the upper hand)> |
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| Oct-15-10 | | SetNoEscapeOn: As Korchnoi said
<'After seeing Anand play, I feel that he plays beautifully, but at times he is not smacking his opponents.''Sometimes, you have to be more violent.''> |
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| Oct-15-10 | | cadwallon: So after 44 ♕xd6 ♖xf3 45 h4 ♖f6 where is the win for white? Will 46 hxg5 ♖xd6 47 gxh6 ♖d8 48 ♘xe5 win, for instance? |
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| Oct-15-10 | | Eyal: <At the end of the press conference [of Shirov-Kramnik] they asked the players about their opinion on Anand-Carlsen. Kramnik: "It's unclear, anything can happen in time trouble. I would rather have black, but this doesn't mean that white is objectively worse. The only thing I can predict is that the first line of Rybka Qa4 will not be played."
While he was talking, Anand played 35.Qa4.> (http://www.chessninja.com/dailydirt...) |
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| Oct-15-10 | | Eyal: <cadwallon: So after 44 Qxd6 Rxf3 45 h4 Rf6 where is the win for white? Will 46 hxg5 Rxd6 47 gxh6 Rd8 48 Nxe5 win, for instance?> In case of 45...Rf6, best winning chances for White might be in the line 46.Qd8+ Rf8 47.Qxf8+ Kxf8 48.hxg5 Bxg5 49.Nf3 followed by 50.Nxe5. Relatively best for Black is probably 45...Qf4 with a still very tricky position after 46.gxf3. Another interesting line which gives White good winning chances is 45...Qg3 46.Nxf3 Bh3 47.Qb8+! (to pull the bishop away from the c1-h6 diagonal) Bf8 48.Ne3 Bxg2 49.Nxg2 Qxf3 50.Qxe5. |
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| Oct-15-10 | | luzhin: 22...Nxd5 23.exd5 e4 looks very nice for Carlsen. He wins back the piece, has opened a raking diagonal for his Black square Bishop and White's pawn on d5 is hard to defend. |
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| Oct-15-10 | | Marmot PFL: <luzhin> The c3 pawn would soon fall also. That's what Shipov meant by last round fatigue. They also are both rather fast players, especially Anand. |
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| Oct-15-10 | | Eyal: <Another interesting line which gives White good winning chances is [44.Qxd6 Rg3 45.h4(!)] 45...Qg3 46.Nxf3 Bh3 47.Qb8+! (to pull the bishop away from the c1-h6 diagonal) Bf8 48.Ne3 Bxg2 49.Nxg2 Qxf3 50.Qxe5.> On second thoughts, this looks rather drawish after 50...h5! so maybe 45...Qg3 is the way for Black to draw in this line. Another drawish-looking (and very forcing) line is 48.Qb2 (instead of Ne3) Bc5+ 49.Kh1 Bd4 50.Nxd4 exd4 51.gxh3 Qxh3+ 52.Kg1 Qg3+ 53.Kf1 Qf3+ 54.Qf2 Qh1+ (54...Qxe4?? 55. Qf7+!) 55.Ke2 Qxe4+ 56.Kd2 Qxd5. |
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| Oct-15-10 | | Eyal: About the 22...Nxd5 idea, according to people on chessninja who listened to the press conference after the game, Carlsen was surprised by its mention and said he hadn't calculated it at all; Anand thought it's complicated and not so clear-cut, but overall indeed better for Black. |
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| Oct-15-10 | | polarmis: Here's the final version of my translation of GM Sergey Shipov's commentary on the game: http://www.chessintranslation.com/2... See also Shipov on the Olympiad and changing FIDE: http://www.crestbook.com/en/node/1348 |
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| Oct-15-10 | | polarmis: <The only thing I can predict is that the first line of Rybka Qa4 will not be played." While he was talking, Anand played 35.Qa4.> Shipov was as surprised as Kramnik, I guess:
<Played very boldly and on principle – in the style of a computer. The queen begins its voyage to the d6 pawn… But it’s very difficult to calculate all the lines in which black bravely counterattacks on the kingside. By the way, there’s no longer enough time for that: 0.15 – 0.06.> |
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| Oct-16-10 | | anandrulez: Does anyone know about Vishy comment on the opening ? He was objectively worse and Ra3 idea was not good . |
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| Oct-16-10 | | anandrulez: Stockfish Evals:
After 20.Nh2 -0.2 approx
After 21 Bg5 -0.4 approx
After 22 Be3 -0.60 depth 29
Can anyone give Rybka evals . I think Vishy's opening idea was not great . Infact only Kramnik played good white openings in this event! |
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| Oct-16-10 | | Hesam7: <luzhin: 22...Nxd5 23.exd5 e4 looks very nice for Carlsen. He wins back the piece, has opened a raking diagonal for his Black square Bishop and White's pawn on d5 is hard to defend.> The capture on d5 is mentioned as a big opportunity for Black that Carlsen overlooked. However White is doing alright if he plays <22. ... Nxd5 23. exd5 e4 24. Be2> everyone looks at 24. Bxe4 instead <24. ... exf3 25. Bxf3> and here I claim that Black's advantage is not as big as people claim: 
click for larger view<(A) <25. ... Bxc3>> 26. Rxc3 Rxc3 27. Bxh5 gxh5 28. Qxh5. White has full compensation for the exchange because of the weak Black king, his immediate threat is Ng4-Nf6 or Ng4-Nh6. (A1) The immediate 28. ... f5? runs into trouble: 29. Qg5+ Kf7 (forced) 30. Rd1 Rc4 31. Bd4! Kf8 32. Qh6+ Kg8 33. Qf6 Rxd4 (forced) 34. Qxd4 having recovered the exchange White is much better. (A2) The only defence that maintains equality is 28. ... Re5! 29. Qh6 f5 30. Nf3 Re4 ... and even here Black has to be extremely careful not to get in trouble. <(B) <25. ... Rxc3>> 26. Rxc3 Bxc3 27. Bxh5 (again!) 27. ... Bxe1 (27. ... gxh5 28. Qxh5 Bxe1 29. Qg5+ and White has perpetual) 28. Bg4 f5 29. Qxe1 fxg4 30. Nxg4 Qg7 (fighting for the dark squares) 31. Qd2 (defending d5 & preparing Bd4) 31. ... Re4 (preventing Bd4) 32. Bg5! 
click for larger viewand this is equal because Black has to return the exchange. <(C) <25. ... Nf6!>> 26. Bd4 Rxe1 (taking over the e-file) 27. Qxe1 Re8 28. Qd2 Qe7 29. Ra1 h5 (restricting the knight): 
click for larger viewAnd of course Black is better but I don't think it is anywhere near winning. |
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| Oct-16-10 | | anandrulez: I checked nd3 line instaed of Rf7 , and many lines lead to a strong position for black with even perpetual but not a clear win since c4 just dissolves the position in favour of white although its still  and white has nothing but counter against black ...and also Anand has to find some sharp moves for that . |
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| Oct-16-10 | | Eyal: <Hesam7: 22. ... Nxd5 23. exd5 e4 24. Be2 exf3 25. Bxf3 Rxc3 26. Rxc3 Bxc3 27. Bxh5 (again!) 27. ... Bxe1 (27. ... gxh5 28. Qxh5 Bxe1 29. Qg5+ and White has perpetual) 28. Bg4 f5 29. Qxe1 fxg4 30. Nxg4 Qg7 (fighting for the dark squares) 31. Qd2 (defending d5 & preparing Bd4) 31. ... Re4 (preventing Bd4) 32. Bg5! and this is equal because Black has to return the exchange.> Yes, that’s an important line – one might write it off for White because it looks like he remains an exchange down, but his control of the dark squares allows him to win it back in a few moves (chessok’s Rybka line, which ends with a -0.77 eval, has 24.Be2 – but then 27.Bd2 instead of Bxh5). Btw, the analysis I’ve seen so far of the later stages of the game doesn’t show any clear win for White either. <anandrulez> I’m not sure at all that 18.Ra3 is a mistake. It’s a very complex position, and the fact is that it’s not so easy for White to handle <16…cxb5>. Compared to 16…axb5 it’s a bit counter-intuitive, since it captures the "wrong" way (away from the center), but it gives Black quite a lot of potential for activity by opening the c-file as well as the long diagonal for the bishop; and in case White blocks this diagonal with d5, it indirectly supports the K-side activity with Nh5(-f4)-f5, undermining White's center. Apparently it was first played this year in Shirov vs D Baramidze, 2010, and now Carlsen has put it into super-GM practice with the game vs. Shirov from round 3 (Shirov vs Carlsen, 2010) and this one. In all three games it seems that Black got a pretty good position out of opening, so players are still trying to figure out what’s the best way for White to play here. Compared to Shirov’s 18.Bb2 in his game vs. Carlsen, Anand’s 18.Ra3 has the point that the bishop remains on the c1-h6 diagonal and keeps an influence on the f4 square. Anand also had the idea of playing on the dark squares with Bg5-e3 (now that the queen doesn't defend Nb6), but apparently this one isn't really so good. |
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| Oct-16-10 | | Matsumoto: Carlsen was really close to a win here. He is back in action, no doubt! |
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| Oct-16-10 | | Ulhumbrus: On the chessbase website Romain Edouard calls 20 Nf1-h2 <probably the first imprecise move>. That may mean that Edouard prefers Bg5 and then at some point after that the plan of Nf3-h2 followed by Qf3 and Nh2-g4 as in the games Fischer vs Shocron, 1959 and Fischer vs Unzicker, 1959 |
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Oct-16-10
 | | tamar: Nice find <Hesam7> It appears to confirm Anand's assessment that it was complicated and not so clear-cut. after 22...Nxd5 23 exd5 e4 24 Be2 exf3 25 Bxf3
<(B) <25. ... Rxc3>> 26. Rxc3 Bxc3 27. Bxh5 (again!) 27. ... Bxe1 (27. ... gxh5 28. Qxh5 Bxe1 29. Qg5+ and White has perpetual) 28. Bg4 f5 29. Qxe1 fxg4 30. Nxg4 Qg7 (fighting for the dark squares) 31. Qd2 (defending d5 & preparing Bd4) 31. ... Re4 (preventing Bd4) 32. Bg5!
click for larger viewThat is an amazing line, and one that Anand surely would have gone for. |
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