< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Dec-09-17|| ||HeMateMe: This program "taught itself chess" then beat the present computer world champion? Perhaps this is the next step, software that can unlock medical and engineering mysteries. Chess is just an afterthought. It destroys GO champions too and masters every other game it learns.|
|Dec-09-17|| ||geniokov: Sooner or later,once this AI be converted into a small chips and be implanted into human body then all of us will be UPGRADED into new dimension in life. Hahaha!|
|Dec-09-17|| ||geniokov: The "End of Chess"is near once AI unlock all problems.|
|Dec-09-17|| ||ndg2: I wonder, since a0 taught itself chess, would there be types of positions, where it wouldn't fair so well, because they come from a different type of playing style? In other words, should it train is neural network,by playing against other engines, too, to make its own play more versatile? Maybe they thought about it, but felt it's already strong enough. And with alpha zero, it probably was exactly the point, that it's self-taught without outside influence.|
|Dec-09-17|| ||alexmagnus: The developer of Stockfish himself said, if Stockfish played at its best (that is, in the best possible configuration), there would be <more draws>. He doesn't say anything about wins - apparently, even to him it is evident that AlphaZero is stronger.|
|Dec-09-17|| ||Ron: <theagenbiteofinwit: I'm more interested in AlphaZero's opening choices, which we can learn from, rather than some of the weird choices it makes in the middle game?>|
A recent article in chessbase https://en.chessbase.com/post/the-f...
says AlphaZero is favoring the English Opening, and the Queen's Gambit.
|Dec-09-17|| ||Ron: From what I understand, AlphaZero has a learning algorithm.
That means that AlphaZero's level of play--albeit very high--will not remain stagnant; its ELO will increase the more it plays.|
|Dec-09-17|| ||zanzibar: <Ron> f(x) = 1 - exp(-x) | x > 0|
is a monotonically increasing function too. But it's also bounded.
|Dec-09-17|| ||WorstPlayerEver: Hmm... an interesting question: is there is a random factor involved?|
If there would be A0 and B0, exact copies running the same hardware, would they follow exactly the same path of development?
And what if they play a match then?
|Dec-09-17|| ||WorstPlayerEver: PS: as a human being I'd rather like to know fer sure ;)|
|Dec-09-17|| ||zanzibar: <WPE: If there would be A0 and B0, exact copies running the same hardware, would they follow exactly the same path of development?>|
No, as the method involves a Monte Carlo process - which involves random number generation. Presumably they generate a new seed for each trial.
|Dec-09-17|| ||Ron: I'm fascinated by AlphaZero, but I'm a bit concerned that the creators have only released the wins by AlphaZero. |
Releasing all the games--all the drawn games--would undoubtedly contribute to the growth of knowledge, including that of AlphaZero. That seems like the scientific way to me.
|Dec-09-17|| ||waustad: Have they told it the axioms of mathematics and let it run from there? Maybe something with fairly simple rules like group theory would be a start. I wonder what its proofs would look like.|
|Dec-10-17|| ||MasterMito: there are hardware differences maybe|
|Dec-10-17|| ||alexmagnus: <Have they told it the axioms of mathematics and let it run from there? Maybe something with fairly simple rules like group theory would be a start>|
The problem with using neural networks for mathematical discovery is, you need to formulate a goal, and a measure of how close to the goal the network got, as this is what eventually defines the network's learning and success. In chess, such a goal is easy - winning. What is a goal in an open-end mathematical discovery?
|Dec-10-17|| ||Chessinfinite: Astonishing ..
It 'learnt' or 'self taught' hundreds of years worth of human knowledge in a few hours.. this is scary if not the apocalypse just yet.
|Dec-10-17|| ||john barleycorn: <alexmagnus: ...
The problem with using neural networks for mathematical discovery is, you need to formulate a goal, ...>
How about calculating the next 100 Mersenne primes? As warm up exercise.
|Dec-10-17|| ||HeMateMe: <How about calculating the next 100 Mersenne primes? As warm up exercise.>|
How about a math proof that convinces Merkel that Germany was already at full employment and fully populated and should not take in one million illegal refugees?
|Dec-10-17|| ||WorstPlayerEver: Well, well, it took Stockfish 4 days, but there's a new development version since the release of the stunning A0 performances. |
Which is interesting, because they released 11 DVs from 3-6 december 2017.
While the last DV before these recent DVs is from 18 nov 2017...
In other words: Stockfish somehow *sensed something...*
|Dec-10-17|| ||john barleycorn: <HeMateMe: ...
How about a math proof that convinces Merkel ....>
After a proof that HRC lost the election ... first things first. MAGA.
|Dec-10-17|| ||zanzibar: <<alexmagnus> What is a goal in an open-end mathematical discovery?>|
Godel built one of these neural nets a long time ago for such a purpose, but it got stuck in an infinite loop, or somesuch.
|Dec-10-17|| ||schweigzwang: <What is a goal in an open-end mathematical discovery?>|
I reckon this is a fair question to ask humans, but not to ask AlphaZero. Maybe we should not be so quick to call AlphaZero "AI".
|Dec-13-17|| ||dannygjk: So many uninformed comments.|
|Dec-13-17|| ||dannygjk: One of the chessgames.com tips says castle early and often. Well If you check Fischer's games he often castled later than many GM's.|
|Dec-13-17|| ||alexmagnus: A0 doesn't castle late though.
6, 12, none*, 9, 10, 7, 8, 7, 6, 6
*moved king on move 16
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