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Oct-29-22 | | Baxer: MissScarlett. I should clarify I wasn't referring to Chessgames or its shoddy Biographies. I was referring to in general - whenever someone is Socialist its known, but when they are capitalist it is assumed unless proven otherwise. |
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Oct-29-22 | | Chessius the Messius: <Baxer>
Really, you should inform yourself better about the Volkswagen Beetle history. Plan economy? You mean: weaponry.
Weaponry always comes first on the list of "economical needs". The rest is bonus. |
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Oct-29-22 | | Baxer: Chessius. I simply stated the number of Beetles produced during the years of Nazi Germany. Which also just so happens to be the dawn of Volkwagen too. I guess I'm just confused as to what you mean when none of the workers saw a single car when many were produced and sold. With regards to the rest of your vague and hard to actually grasp comments. What do you mean? |
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Oct-29-22 | | Chessius the Messius: PS it's a fact that no matter the color of regime, or what country, after WWII, weaponry was the first thing people went voting for. Simply because that is their nr1 business policy when it comes to tax payer's money haha. There's no way to deny my statement. People vote because they fear something. But maybe NATO just exists because it exists. At random. Who knows. The mean reason of your voter's existence is your fear and how to manage that fear. If there is nothing to fear, the government would soon run out of business= lose total control over managing your fears. So yeah, it's all business as usual :)
Clip&clear, the Matrix only exists in the mind, after all. |
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Oct-29-22
 | | MissScarlett: <MissScarlett. I should clarify I wasn't referring to Chessgames or its shoddy Biographies> Are you interested in improving all of <cg>'s biographies or just one? Since, it seems, Nazism is merely a subset of Capitalism, why draw attention to Junge's alleged Nazism and not his Capitalism? |
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Oct-29-22
 | | MissScarlett: From the bio: <In 1942 at Prague he came 1st= (+7 =3 -1) with Alexander Alekhine, but at age 18, sadly, this was to be his last tournament.> Should <sadly> be removed? Should it be replaced by <happily>? |
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Oct-29-22 | | Chessius the Messius: --
Hitler set up the state-owned Volkswagen company before the war in Nazi Germany under the umbrella of the DAF, the Deutsche Arbeitsfront (German Labour Front). The DAF ran the Kraft durch Freude (KdF – “Strength Through Joy”) program, designed to bridge the divide between classes and promote National Socialism to the masses, and so the car was named after this – the KdF-Wagen (literally – the “KdF Car”). Source: the collector
---
A savings scheme was set up by the DAF, which had invested heavily to produce the car, whereby people gradually put in enough money to have a car delivered, and then finish paying it off. Many, many German families invested in the scheme. Nobody, not one family, ever received a Volkswagen. Some investors did receive some money back in the 60's (from memory), but most simply lost their investment. Source: Quora (edit: I picked this one, because it briefly states what other sources also state, it's "common knowledge") ---
Two excerpts of the "production":
Volkswagen had only just started small scale production, building about 210 Beetles, when
civilian production was halted at the start of the war. -
A handful of KdF-Wagen were produced, primarily for the Nazi elite, from 1941 to 1944, as the Typ 60. Source: wiki |
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Oct-29-22 | | nok: <In 1942 at Prague he came 1st= (+7 =3 -1) with <fellow Nazi> Alexander Alekhine...> Here, doubly informative. |
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Oct-29-22 | | Baxer: MissScarlett. I don't mind pointing out discrepancies but the answer would likely be no, I wouldn't want to edit all these biographies. You are correct Nazism is a result/subset of Capitalism. I believe calling out Nazism and Capitalism are the same thing for the reason just stated. But I am more than willing to call him out for being a Capitalist specifically too if you wish MissScarlett. Yeah, I wouldn't mind it being replaced with happily. But I understand/I presume the sadly is supposed to be in relation to the premature ending of his Chess career. But again, I wouldn't complain about the change in the text as you suggested. Chessius.
Thank you for enlightening me on the divine knowledge that every country has a military and therefore needs weaponry. Good to know. I think it's very understandable to have that need, especially after WWII. However in particular countries that did not take precedence over the reconstruction of the civilian infrastructure etc. such as the USSR. I assume you use the term they/their in reference to Governments in general. I also assume you know that weaponry isn't very profitable, war is, or more to the point - bombing your competition is. However, your statement is definitely very deniable hence why I am doing so now. NATO is an expansionist military organization created solely to isolate and fight against Communism and spread US hegemony over the globe. Something it's been rather successful at - spreading 'liberal democracy' no matter how many people they have to kill to do it. They didn't come into existence on a whim. I am also confused about your stance regarding people voting purely because they fear something. Fear what exactly? I assume your view that the government purely exists to exploit fear is a Libertarian one, also one not entirely grounded in reality, like many Libertarians are. Could you clarify and elaborate on these fear remarks? Is your solution to all this 'Matrix' stuff to run into the woods and eat berries? If so, feel free to do so right now. No one will stop you. Unless it's private property of course!! Regarding Volkswagen's Beetle, it's Very interesting to know. No doubt you know more about this than me. I think there is a very important moral to this story. Nazis were (say it with me kids) Bad! However, my question remains. What's your point exactly? |
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Oct-29-22 | | ZoboBear 000000001: The <Sturm und Drang> has evolved far beyond the confines of just one chess player - be he rapid Nazi or not. Much of this discussion would be better hosted over on <Rogoff> at this point. |
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Oct-29-22 | | Baxer: ZoboBear. Don't get mad at Kibitzer's Kibitzing. |
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Oct-29-22 | | ZoboBear 000000001: I'm not mad, but it really have gone far afield from Junge himself. (And <Rogoff> is tailor-made for these wide ranging discussions.) |
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Oct-29-22 | | Baxer: ZoboBear. I'm enjoying it. It has become larger than Klaus Junge, true, but has it really gone further? Once again, he is a representative of many organizations and ideas. I like to think of it in such a way. |
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Oct-29-22
 | | perfidious: <zed....Much of this discussion would be better hosted over on <Rogoff> at this point.> The question of whether Junge was, or was not, a Nazi, and to what degree, could probably have been established in the 1940s; but now it is all but irresoluble. In any case, there is Junge's chess; even the likes of Hans Frank, who was very clearly a war criminal whose actions richly merited his death on the gallows, has a place here. Keres? Alekhine? In short, I agree with the cite from <zed>: this has got well beyond the bounds of Junge himself and his chess, and the discussion of the utterly repellent Nazism is best shifted to the Rogovian miasma. |
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Oct-29-22 | | ZoboBear 000000001: OK, let's start with the admission that I can't force the discussion over <Rogoff>. But I do have one question about Junge and Nazism. Is it possible to confirm or not if he was an actual member of the NSDAP? I know microfilm exists of the enrollment records, but I haven't found any online access. Does anybody know how to actually research such a question? . |
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Oct-29-22 | | Baxer: ZoboBear. I'm unsure. It's not written anywhere I have looked, only that his Father Otto Junge was a member since 1932. If it's not relatively easy information to get, I won't be of much use. |
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Oct-29-22 | | ZoboBear 000000001: I've even looked at now "well known" fact that his father was a member. The only reference I've found is a link to a now defunct webpage. Surely this information must be online somewhere, but I've yet to find a source. . |
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Oct-29-22 | | ZoboBear 000000001: (Oops, another Freudian slip - it's <rabid Nazi>, not <rapid Nazi> above. (Must have chess on the brain!)) |
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Oct-29-22 | | nok: <And <Rogoff> is tailor-made for these wide ranging discussions.> There's an idiot spamming that page so people hesitate to go there. |
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Oct-29-22 | | ZoboBear 000000001: <<nok> There's an idiot spamming that page so people hesitate to go there.> Nothing a sprinkling of <ignore-list> magic dust can't cure. |
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Oct-29-22
 | | perfidious: <zed: <nok> There's an idiot spamming that page so people hesitate to go there.> Nothing a sprinkling of <ignore-list> magic dust can't cure.> That particular cure for <lice> and <kudzu> has long since, dare I say it, been liberally applied from this quarter. |
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Dec-05-22 | | Chessist: [Event "Leipzig Bluemich Memorial"]
[Site "Leipzig"]
[Date "1942.12.01"]
[Round "5"]
[White "Grammatikoff, Josef"]
[Black "Junge, Klaus"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "E62"]
[PlyCount "98"]
[EventDate "1942.11.28"]
[EventType "swiss"]
[EventRounds "7"]
[EventCountry "GER"]
[SourceTitle "EXT 2023"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2022.10.05"]
[SourceVersion "1"]
[SourceVersionDate "2022.10.05"]
[SourceQuality "1"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 d6 3. Nc3 e5 4. Nf3 Nc6 5. g3 g6 6. Bg2 Bg7 7. O-O O-O 8. h3 a5
9. d5 Nb8 10. e4 Na6 11. Ne1 Ne8 12. Nd3 Nb4 13. Be3 Nxd3 14. Qxd3 Qe7 15. b3
f5 16. a3 Nf6 17. Kh2 Rf7 18. Rae1 Qf8 19. f4 exf4 20. Bxf4 fxe4 21. Nxe4 Bf5
22. Nxf6+ Rxf6 23. Qd2 b6 24. Be3 Re8 25. Bd4 Rf7 26. Bxg7 Kxg7 27. Qc3+ Kg8
28. Rxe8 Qxe8 29. g4 Bd7 30. Rxf7 Qxf7 31. b4 axb4 32. axb4 Qf2 33. Qf3 Qxf3
34. Bxf3 g5 35. Kg3 Kg7 36. b5 Kf6 37. Kf2 Ke5 38. Ke3 Be8 39. Be4 Bg6 40. Bf3
Bc2 41. Bg2 Bd1 42. Bf1 h5 43. gxh5 Bxh5 44. Bg2 Bg6 45. Bf3 Bb1 46. Bd1 Kf6
47. Bf3 Bf5 48. Bg2 Ke5 49. Bf1 Be4 0-1
[Event "Leipzig Bluemich Memorial"]
[Site "Leipzig"]
[Date "1942.12.01"]
[Round "6"]
[White "Junge, Klaus"]
[Black "Niephaus, Walter"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "E02"]
[PlyCount "83"]
[EventDate "1942.11.28"]
[EventType "swiss"]
[EventRounds "7"]
[EventCountry "GER"]
[SourceTitle "EXT 2023"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2022.10.05"]
[SourceVersion "1"]
[SourceVersionDate "2022.10.05"]
[SourceQuality "1"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. g3 d5 4. Bg2 dxc4 5. Qa4+ Bd7 6. Qxc4 Bc6 7. Nf3 Nbd7 8.
O-O Nb6 9. Qd3 Be7 10. Nc3 O-O 11. e4 Rc8 12. Rd1 Be8 13. Qe2 c6 14. Bh3 h6 15.
Be3 Bd7 16. Ne5 Re8 17. Rd2 Bb4 18. Qf3 Qe7 19. a3 Bd6 20. Rad1 Rcd8 21. Bf1
Bc8 22. Bd3 c5 23. dxc5 Bxc5 24. Bb5 Rxd2 25. Rxd2 Rf8 26. Bxc5 Qxc5 27. Nd3
Qg5 28. Rd1 a6 29. h4 Qh5 30. Qxh5 Nxh5 31. Ba4 Nf6 32. Bb3 Rd8 33. Kf1 Kf8 34.
Ke2 Ke7 35. Rd2 Rd4 36. Ne5 Rxd2+ 37. Kxd2 Nbd7 38. Nd3 b6 39. f3 Bb7 40. Ke3
Ne8 41. Ba2 a5 42. b4 1/2-1/2
[Event "Leipzig Bluemich Memorial"]
[Site "Leipzig"]
[Date "1942.12.02"]
[Round "7"]
[White "Kopetzky, Karl"]
[Black "Junge, Klaus"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C56"]
[PlyCount "92"]
[EventDate "1942.11.28"]
[EventType "swiss"]
[EventRounds "7"]
[EventCountry "GER"]
[SourceTitle "EXT 2023"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2022.10.05"]
[SourceVersion "1"]
[SourceVersionDate "2022.10.05"]
[SourceQuality "1"]
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Bc4 Nf6 5. O-O Nxe4 6. Re1 d5 7. Bxd5 Qxd5 8.
Nc3 Qa5 9. Nxe4 Be6 10. Neg5 O-O-O 11. Nxe6 fxe6 12. Rxe6 Bd6 13. Bg5 Rdf8 14.
Bh4 Qh5 15. Bg3 Bxg3 16. hxg3 Rd8 17. Qd3 Qd5 18. Re4 Nb4 19. Qxd4 Qxd4 20.
Rxd4 Nxc2 21. Rxd8+ Rxd8 22. Rc1 Nd4 23. Nxd4 Rxd4 24. Rc2 Rd1+ 25. Kh2 Kd7 26.
g4 Kd6 27. f4 c5 28. Kg3 b5 29. Kf2 c4 30. Re2 b4 31. g5 Rd4 32. Kf3 c3 33.
bxc3 bxc3 34. Rc2 Rc4 35. Ke3 Kc5 36. a3 Kb5 37. f5 Ka4 38. Kd3 Kb3 39. f6 Rc8
40. Rc1 Rd8+ 41. Ke4 gxf6 42. gxf6 Kb2 43. Rh1 c2 44. Ke5 Rd1 45. f7 Rxh1 46.
f8=Q c1=Q 0-1 |
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Dec-05-22
 | | MissScarlett: Games are up. |
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Dec-08-22 | | iges04: He had some reasons to fight. The Allies killed 50000 civilians in bombing of Hamburg only, and Churchill is still regarded as a hero in many Western countries. |
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Mar-04-23 | | Baxer: I miss the time when this kibitzing section was lively and full of discussion. Even if somewhat deluded - with matrix talk, etc. |
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Later Kibitzing> |