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At the end of the ... [more]
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Player: Fyodor Duz-Khotimirsky
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Mar-31-15
 | | offramp: All this hoo-ha about Bogoljubov not being a worthy challenger to Alekhine in 1929 is just a load of hoo-ha. At chessmetrics (http://chessmetrics.com/cm/CM2/Play... ) Jeff Sonas has written thus: <Best Individual Performance: 2762 in Moscow, 1925, scoring 10/14 (71%) vs 2647-rated opposition>
That's this tournament, of course.
... Above that Sonas wrote, for Efim,
<Best World Rank: #1 (2 different months between the January 1927 rating list and the February 1927 rating list )> Wherefore? Well, EDB had won the USSR Ch in both 1924 and 1925. Then he won here and then, says wikipedia, <In 1926, he emigrated to Germany. He won, ahead of Akiba Rubinstein that year at Berlin. [He was not too bad at] Kissingen 1928, where he triumphed (+6 -1 =4) over a field which included Capablanca, Nimzowitsch and Savielly Tartakower. Bogoljubov won two matches against Max Euwe (both 5.5–4.5) in 1928 and 1928/29 in the Netherlands.> But this tournament in Moscow was his outstanding achievement. Finishing ahead of Lasker was a feat accomplished by only a handful of players before Lasker's first retirement. |
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Mar-31-15
 | | plang: Bogoljubov-Capablanca game from this tournament was a classic fighting game |
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Mar-31-15
| | offramp: A crucial score from this event is that of Fedor Parfenovich Bohatirchuk. He scored 50%. If we can figure out HIS rating, then we know the average rating of the tournament and from that we'll know the rating of everyone in the entire world!! |
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| Mar-31-15 | | Karne: At this time, Moscow was in turbulence. Capablanca considered resigning at the very start, but Boguljobov's disorganized belly endowed him with enough confidence to get on. |
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| Mar-31-15 | | Marmot PFL: <All this hoo-ha about Bogoljubov not being a worthy challenger to Alekhine in 1929 is just a load of hoo-ha.> That was mainly a commentary on the 2nd match (1934). Even Alekhine agreed with that <This game - more than any other - proves how useless from the sporting point of view was the arrangement of this second match, and at the same time explains my indifferent play on a number of occasions>. Of course Alekhine could have played Nimzovitsch, Botvinnik, Reshevsky, or a rematch with Capablanca instead. |
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Mar-31-15
 | | keypusher: <Marmot PFL: <All this hoo-ha about Bogoljubov not being a worthy challenger to Alekhine in 1929 is just a load of hoo-ha.>
That was mainly a commentary on the 2nd match (1934). Even Alekhine agreed with that <This game - more than any other - proves how useless from the sporting point of view was the arrangement of this second match, and at the same time explains my indifferent play on a number of occasions>. Of course Alekhine could have played Nimzovitsch, Botvinnik, Reshevsky, or a rematch with Capablanca instead.> 1934 was too late for Nimzowitsch, and too early for Botvinnik and Reshevsky. Capablanca was inactive in the early 30s. Flohr would probably have been the least bad. Sort of like the situation with Kasparov in the 1990s, or arguably Carlsen now. No one was qualified, really. |
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Mar-31-15
 | | HeMateMe: Capa, Flohr and Nimzo were all better than Bogo, at this point in time. |
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Mar-31-15
| | keypusher: <HeMateMe: Capa, Flohr and Nimzo were all better than Bogo, at this point in time.> If by <at this point in time> you mean 1934, you're quite wrong about Nimzowitsch, who was dropping like a stone and died a year later. Capa's low ranking on the April 1934 chessmetrics list (when the match began) is the result of inactivity, but it's hard to rate someone who isn't playing. Kashdan, Flohr, and Euwe were all rated (slightly) higher than Bogoljubov. Of course, Euwe got his shot a year later. http://chessmetrics.com/cm/CM2/Sing... |
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Mar-31-15
| | HeMateMe: Flohr and Capa were two of the best players of the 30s. I can't believe they were not more deserving than Bogo II. |
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Mar-31-15
 | | WCC Editing Project:
I have compiled a comparative presentation of results among <POTENTIAL OPPONENTS> for Alexander Alekhine between Alekhine - Bogoljubov World Championship Match (1929) (6 Sept - 12 Nov 1929) and
Alekhine - Bogoljubov World Championship Rematch (1934) (1 April - 14 June 1934) The potential opponents are limited here to <Capablanca, Nimzowitsch, Kashdan, Flohr, Euwe, Bogoljubov>. The list is here- you can examine many of the events and play through many of the head to head encounters as well: Game Collection: WCC: Alekhine-Bogoljubov 1934 ARCHIVE Contenders |
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Mar-31-15
| | WCC Editing Project:
<HeMateMe> I have to agree with <keypusher's> post, but I'm sure everyone (where have you gone, man?) would have preferred to see an <Alekhine-Capablanca> rematch. As <keypusher> notes, though, <Capablanca's> extended absence from competitive play makes him tough to handicap from a "results" perspective. He barely had any results during this period to analyze. |
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Mar-31-15
 | | perfidious: Golombek conjectured on Capa's long absence from tournament play following New York 1931 in his collection, but has it ever been made clear why he stayed out of action? |
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| Mar-31-15 | | Marmot PFL: <Capa, Flohr and Nimzo were all better than Bogo, at this point in time.> Also Botvinnik at Nottingham beat Bogo in 25 moves (with black). However Botvinnik would probably not have challenged Alekhine until he thought he could be reasonably sure of winning (1938 or later). He might have beaten Euwe, but Euwe was committted to a rematch with Alekhine. |
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Apr-01-15
| | offramp: I once suggested (at Alexander Alekhine (kibitz #2965)) that Alekhine burned out quite quickly after 1935. But I was wrong! He had, like many great players (Karpov for example) a very powerful second wind and was playing strongly throughout the Nazi era. As regards an Alekhine-Capablanca Match, I gave my thoughts at Jose Raul Capablanca (kibitz #1748). The gist of it is <A rematch would have been under identical rules - ie the first to 6 wins. In 1930, in a post-Wall St-Crash world, which mental midget entrepreneur was going to write a blank check for a match between a stronger Alekhine and a better-prepared Capablanca?? A match of - what? - 40 games? 50 games??> But this isn't really the place to talk about that rematch. This should be a joyous occasion! |
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Apr-01-15
| | keypusher: <WCC Editing Project> Game Collection: WCC: Alekhine-Bogoljubov 1934 ARCHIVE Contenders Thanks, very interesting. |
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| Apr-01-15 | | Marmot PFL: <I once suggested (at Alexander Alekhine (kibitz #2965)) that Alekhine burned out quite quickly after 1935. But I was wrong! He had, like many great players (Karpov for example) a very powerful second wind and was playing strongly throughout the Nazi era.> Alekhine's level from the mid-20s to the early 30s was extraordinarily high so some decline was inevitable. Working capacity is limited and there were younger rivals coming along who grew up studying Alekhine as he had studied Lasker, Capa and Rubinstein. Up until 1943 Alekhine still played very well, although the competition during the war years was not so strong. After that he moved to Portugal, had financial and political problems, began to smoke and drink more heavily and went downhill. |
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Apr-01-15
| | offramp: Was this the tournament during which Capablanca undertook a big journey to play a simultaneous display against some very strong players, lost quite a few and struggled for the rest of the tournament? |
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Apr-01-15
| | keypusher: <offramp: Was this the tournament during which Capablanca undertook a big journey to play a simultaneous display against some very strong players,> Yes
<lost quite a few >
Depends on how you define a few
<and struggled for the rest of the tournament?> No.
The simul was in Leningrad on November 20th, an off-day. Capablanca vs Botvinnik, 1925
Going into the simul, as we can see Capa had scored an anemic +2-1=5. (He had started badly at New York the year before also.) He lost the first game after the simul, in dreadful fashion (Capablanca vs Verlinsky, 1925) but overall scored +7-1=4 after coming back. He lost four out of 30 games at the simul, which is a lot for him but not bad given how strong his opponents were. He also played several simuls in Moscow while the tournament was in progress, according to <paladin at large>. |
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Apr-01-15
| | WCC Editing Project:
Thanks <Scott>, means a lot to me coming from you. |
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Apr-01-15
| | WCC Editing Project:
<Capablanca> on his experience at <Moscow 1925>: <"Although very philosophical, very observant and completely dispassionate in my judgment about everything concerning chess and its great exponents, I was nonetheless <<<unable to understand>>> the curious phenomenon that was occurring. I could comprehend perfectly well that my own work was not at all effective, but I could not see anything outstanding in that of the other players."> -Edward Winter, "Capablanca" p.128 |
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Apr-02-15
| | offramp: After looking at Capablanca's games from this tournament, Alekhine must have realised that he had a serious chance of winning a match with Capablanca. Even the win v Bogoljubov is unconvincing. |
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| Apr-02-15 | | Howard: Granted, New York 1924 and Moscow 1925 were not exactly two of Capablanca's better tournaments.... ...but then what about New York 1927. Alekhine's confidence was probably a bit shaken by Capa's performance in that one ! |
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Apr-02-15
| | offramp: But Alekhine must have been delighted to see Capablanca as lost as the Holy Grail after only <14 moves> in his game against Verlinsky. |
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| Mar-01-16 | | The Kings Domain: This was the tournament that probably foreshadowed the Soviet dominance of the game to come. The film "Chess Fever" that featured the tournament is a delightful little charmer. :-) |
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Mar-01-16
| | perfidious: <.......what about New York 1927. Alekhine's confidence was probably a bit shaken by Capa's performance in that one> That event may well have redoubled Alekhine's bottomless well of determination and served as a reminder that, only through unstinting effort, could he overcome Capablanca. Capa's fine result at New York may, conversely, have made him overconfident in anticipation of Buenos Aires. |
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