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TOURNAMENT STANDINGS
Tal Memorial Tournament

Levon Aronian5.5/9(+2 -0 =7)[games]
Sergey Karjakin5.5/9(+2 -0 =7)[games]
Shakhriyar Mamedyarov5.5/9(+3 -1 =5)[games]
Alexander Grischuk5/9(+1 -0 =8)[games]
Hao Wang5/9(+2 -1 =6)[games]
Hikaru Nakamura5/9(+1 -0 =8)[games]
Vladimir Kramnik4.5/9(+2 -2 =5)[games]
Boris Gelfand3.5/9(+2 -4 =3)[games]
Alexey Shirov3/9(+1 -4 =4)[games]
Pavel Eljanov2.5/9(+1 -5 =3)[games]

 page 1 of 2; games 1-25 of 45  PGN Download
Game  ResultMoves YearEvent/LocaleOpening
1. Mamedyarov vs Nakamura ½-½432010Tal MemorialD56 Queen's Gambit Declined
2. Aronian vs Kramnik 1-0412010Tal MemorialD38 Queen's Gambit Declined, Ragozin Variation
3. Karjakin vs Gelfand 1-0572010Tal MemorialC42 Petrov Defense
4. Shirov vs H Wang 0-1512010Tal MemorialC11 French
5. Grischuk vs Eljanov 1-0602010Tal MemorialE00 Queen's Pawn Game
6. H Wang vs Aronian ½-½402010Tal MemorialE06 Catalan, Closed, 5.Nf3
7. Nakamura vs Eljanov 1-0402010Tal MemorialE00 Queen's Pawn Game
8. Kramnik vs Grischuk ½-½392010Tal MemorialD37 Queen's Gambit Declined
9. Mamedyarov vs Karjakin ½-½392010Tal MemorialE21 Nimzo-Indian, Three Knights
10. Gelfand vs Shirov 1-0612010Tal MemorialD16 Queen's Gambit Declined Slav
11. Grischuk vs H Wang ½-½222010Tal MemorialD17 Queen's Gambit Declined Slav
12. Karjakin vs Nakamura ½-½702010Tal MemorialC67 Ruy Lopez
13. Aronian vs Gelfand 1-0412010Tal MemorialD43 Queen's Gambit Declined Semi-Slav
14. Eljanov vs Kramnik 0-1492010Tal MemorialE37 Nimzo-Indian, Classical
15. Shirov vs Mamedyarov 0-1712010Tal MemorialC95 Ruy Lopez, Closed, Breyer
16. Mamedyarov vs Aronian ½-½352010Tal MemorialD11 Queen's Gambit Declined Slav
17. Gelfand vs Grischuk ½-½412010Tal MemorialD02 Queen's Pawn Game
18. Karjakin vs Shirov ½-½632010Tal MemorialC78 Ruy Lopez
19. Nakamura vs Kramnik ½-½332010Tal MemorialC42 Petrov Defense
20. H Wang vs Eljanov ½-½792010Tal MemorialA29 English, Four Knights, Kingside Fianchetto
21. Aronian vs Karjakin ½-½562010Tal MemorialE21 Nimzo-Indian, Three Knights
22. Shirov vs Nakamura ½-½792010Tal MemorialC67 Ruy Lopez
23. Grischuk vs Mamedyarov ½-½492010Tal MemorialD70 Neo-Grunfeld Defense
24. Eljanov vs Gelfand 1-0532010Tal MemorialD48 Queen's Gambit Declined Semi-Slav, Meran
25. Kramnik vs H Wang ½-½342010Tal MemorialE10 Queen's Pawn Game
 page 1 of 2; games 1-25 of 45  PGN Download
  REFINE SEARCH:   White wins (1-0) | Black wins (0-1) | Draws (1/2-1/2)  

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 42 OF 43 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Nov-15-10  checkmateyourmove: i was one of the first to comment on this tourney and my predictions were spot on . aronion in first and naka in middle of the field. but naka finishing in the middle with no losses and few wins is very surprising to me!
Nov-15-10  bharatiy: <frogbert> if you read lst part my comment, for me this comparison is not when they are top10 but top 5 and only between WCC Sofia and next???? GOK when next?
Nov-15-10  frogbert: <I see this is kind of slow race, post Sofia till ??????????? Next WCC match or tournament.>

i probably didn't get what you were saying in this sentence.

gok = god only knows?

Nov-15-10  bharatiy: yes, its god only knows!! or not in this case !!!!
Nov-15-10  SetNoEscapeOn: <Shams>

You think that top level chess events should almost exclusively be knockouts?

Nov-15-10  Shams: <SetNoEscapeOn> No, I hate knockouts. Why send people home after a few days? I misspoke in that respect. I like Round robins or DRRs...have four 'majors' a year, plus sub groups like Corus A,B,C, and qualifying tournaments. Losers face relegation to lower brackets.

Dump the WCC title altogether, in other words. None of this hide-your-preparation business; I'd like to see how Anand would fare if he were really gunning for it all the time. Success would then be measured by how many grand slams you win; also by your rating, to be updated instantly after games. Make <frogbert> Minister of Ratings, perhaps.

That's the gist of it.

Nov-15-10  bharatiy: <shams> so you are for Fide Grand prix!!
Nov-15-10  frogbert: <None of this hide-your-preparation business; I'd like to see how Anand would fare if he were really gunning for it all the time.>

i don't really see what's so great with the majority of the top 10 being in the business of "hiding prep" more than half of the time, which would be the case with the frequency implied by 3-year cycles.

and please don't give me that about anand defending his title every 2nd year - true, it's been that way for some time now, but only due to exceptional circumstances, or "left-overs" from the unification process - the "cycles" themselves have mostly been clearly longer.

the 2010 championship had its first qualifiers in 2006 (zonals), more zonals and the wcc in 2007, the topalov-kamsky match in 2009 and finally the match in 2010. roughly 4 years in the coming.

the 2008 match was simply a "rematch" and was not part of any real cycle.

the 2007 championship started with zonals in 2005 (possibly also in late 2004?), wcc in 2005 and candidate matches in 2007.

the 2012 (?) championship had the wcc 2007 as its first qualification event (to the grand prix), then the grand prix in 2008-2009, "pause" due to the wc final in 2010, candidate matches in 2011 (?) and then eventually a match in 2012.

hopefully we're soon done with this nonsense of "semi-parallel" cycles.

note that players that weren't top 10 or otherwise strong enough to be realistic challengers for the crown in 2007 have since january 2008 had the 2009 world chess cup as the single* way to get a shot at the title over the years 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013. for anybody but topalov and kamsky, the entire years 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 have been doomed to be years without a shot at the title. that's 4 full years (and then some) without a chance of becoming world champion. so i don't buy any stories about "2-year cycles", despite anand's many title defences.

*) of course, some young talent managed to get into the 2008-2009 grand prix, either through the 2007 wcc (karjakin and carlsen) or as "organizer nominees".

Nov-15-10  frogbert: <for anybody but topalov and kamsky, the entire years 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 have been doomed to be years without a shot at the title.>

i forgot kramnik due to the 2008 match. oh well. it was not part of any real "cycle", though. only open for kramnik and the world champion.

Nov-15-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  kamalakanta: any news about Spassky?
Nov-15-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  kamalakanta: In 2008 Spassky said he was writing an auto-biography, or something like it...any news on that?
Nov-15-10  The Rocket: According to wikipedia his condition stabilised and he was sent for rehabilitation in France.
Nov-15-10  Shams: <frogbert><i don't really see what's so great with the majority of the top 10 being in the business of "hiding prep" more than half of the time>

I don't think it's great either; I think it sucks. Not sure if you're agreeing with me or not.

<bharatiy: <shams> so you are for Fide Grand prix!!>

Am I? If the Grand Prix is what I described, then I'm for it, but the larger point is I'm for getting rid of the World Chess Championship cycle, and title, altogether.

Nov-15-10  frogbert: <I don't think it's great either; I think it sucks. Not sure if you're agreeing with me or not. >

we're in agreement. i guess we're young at heart. ;o)

Nov-15-10  boz: Anybody know how many times the lead changed hands in this tournament? It seems to me it was a lot.
Nov-16-10  visayanbraindoctor: Any converts to your advocacy <Shams>, to totally scrap the World Championship Match and Title?

Although I totally disagree with your idea, I am pleased that you go about advocating it openly. There might be a few chess fans who have the same idea as yours but, mindful of the backlash from the majority of the chess world who do support the institution and tradition of the World Championship Match and Title, go about their advocacy in subterfuge, always allowing a way for them to deny it if criticized.

You are wrong though if you think the institution and tradition of the World Championship Match and Title is the oldest tradition in the chessworld. Simply put, it did not exist before this match:

Steinitz-Zukertort World Championship Match (1886)

Before this match, there was a popular notion of <the best chess player in the world>, some kind of <unofficial chess champion of the world>. I believe that for most individual sports, there always will be.

Thus people like

Alexandre Louis Honore Lebreton Deschapelles

Louis Charles Mahe De La Bourdonnais

Pierre Charles Fournier de Saint Amant

Howard Staunton

Paul Morphy

Adolf Anderssen

where at some periods in time regarded by many chess fans at that time as the <best player in the world> and some kind of <unofficial world champion>.

Frankly, it was a messy and vague system to determine the <best player in the world>. In general the more international tournaments a chess player wins, the more highly regarded he was as the best. Given the nature of chess as a game between two individuals, the best ones usually challenged each other in one-on-one matches, after finding sympathetic sponsors who would put up the financial stakes. Naturally, chess fans and chess masters were all the time arguing who really was the <best player in the world> given the messy and vague system they had. For the most part, there was not an undisputed <best player> but many perceived <best players>.

Until Steinitz (and no doubt a significant part of the chess world or else Steinitz would never have been able to successfully institutionalize it) came along and institutionalized the World Championship Match and Title. And fed up with the messy and vague previously prevailing system, the rest of the chess world agreed with Steinitz. For them, they had pretty good reasons to stabilize and institutionalize a supreme Title. Now the goal of every leading chess master suddenly became much clearer - beat the Titleholder in a one-on-one match.

Thus, the Romance of the Chess World Championship Match was born.

There can only be Two.

The Champion to hold the ancient Title he bested all the world's chess masters for.

The Challenger on the same climb to to take the same Title of yore.

(Although at that time, the Title was not ancient at all, and the structured system of the World Championship cycle and the Candidates was still 4 generations in the future.)

What you, and a minority of kibitzers, are essentially proposing is a return to this messy era. The moment the institution and tradition of the World Championship Match and Title is abolished, more than a dozen claimants to the title of the <best player in the world> will show up. We will be back to the era of Staunton. Pretty soon, chess fans will get fed up with the ambiguity, and given the nature of chess as a one-on-one game, will demand that the perceived <best players> in the world play one-on-one matches with each other.

This debate has no doubt occurred several times among chess fans and masters way back in the 19th century, and they came up with a solution. And was again rekindled on Alekhine's death, which must have caused a crisis, but the solution settled upon was still the same, with the additional improvement of a world championship cycle and Candidates. There are few things that are fundamentally new under the sun. IMO the present (and now ancient) World Championship Match institution is the best for chess.

Nov-16-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  HeMateMe: some sports just don't translate well to being champ by rating points or tournament victories per year. Boxing, chess, freestyle wrestling, tae kwando--the sport is more intriguing to fans if one person sits on the throne, and has to be knocked off.
Nov-16-10  amadeus: Actually, chess has the best point system of all them. No sport translates as well as chess.
Nov-16-10  Kazzak: And if the public was composed of statisticians <amadeus> all would be good.

We're taken with the image of a challenger beinged vanquished or dethroning the champion.

That particular image is right there on the board, in front of you, as the forces go out hunting for the King.

That's what we should have as a deciding format. I can name all the official world champions in succession; I am completely uninterested in who was #1 in ratings at the end of each year.

Nov-16-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  alexmagnus: The romance... Chess is not a romantic game, why the hell do we need "the romance" of the world championship?
Nov-16-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  alexmagnus: Don't get me wrong, I'm not against the world championship itself. I just find it weird to argument for it with "the romance". A game as dry as chess has no place for sentiments/romance.
Nov-16-10  Mr. Bojangles: <The romance... Chess is not a romantic game, why the hell do we need "the romance" of the world championship?>

hahahahha

Nov-16-10  SugarDom: <A game as dry as chess has no place for sentiments/romance.>

Then why the heck you bother with it?

Nov-16-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  alexmagnus: Because I like dry games?:)
Nov-16-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  HeMateMe: <Actually, chess has the best point system of all them. No sport translates as well as chess.> And, it sure worked great when Pomonariev and some other fellows________ were crowned "world champion" 8 or 10 years ago. I'd like to fill in the blank there, but I can't remember who they were. I don't think anyone else remembers either.
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