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May-29-04 | | BiLL RobeRTiE: <paultopia> With reference to your previous posts, I think that 3. g3? is a stupid and pointless move in the first place. 1 e4 e5 2 f4 exf4 3 g3? and now after 3...d5 or 3...fxg3 Black stands a lot better. |
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May-30-04
 | | tpstar: <BiLL RobeRTiE> Time out! He made it clear in the KGA he prefers 3. Bc4, whereas another poster suggested 3. g3!?. But then paultopia asked about 1. e4 e5 2. f4 Qh4+ 3. g3 (KGD), which is different than the 2 ... ef 3. g3!? line. Fair enough? |
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May-30-04 | | BiLL RobeRTiE: Whoops! Guess I misunderstood. I think I would still annotate it as 2...exf4 3. g3? though. |
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May-31-04 | | paultopia: Bill --- yea, it's 2. ... Qh4+ 3. g3 to get out of check as an alternative to going into some horrible variation where the king runs. Here's another HORRIBLE HORRIBLE line someone recently used on me, that just makes me nauseous. 1. e4 e5 2. f4 Nc6 3. Nf3 d6 4. Bc4 Be7 5. O-O Bg4 6. d3 Qd7 7. Nc3 Nf6 8.
fxe5 dxe5 9. Qe1 Bxf3 10. Rxf3 Nd4 11. Rf2 Ng4 12. Rd2 Bg5 13. Rd1 At which point I'm in "oh my god. this is terrible" mode. This starts to look like a refutation. The bishop pin ties down the knight AND the queen, and if the queen moves to unpin the knight, black can forcibly win the exchange? (unless white wants to expose his king) anyone see any improvements? |
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May-31-04
 | | tpstar: <paultopia> You mean besides 2. Nf3 right? (kidding) According to the Opening Explorer this line works great for White, starting with 4. Bc4 Bg4 5. 0-0, because 5 ... Nd4? 6. Bxf7+! Kxf7 7. Ng5+ and Black can't play 7 ... Qxg5 because 8. fxg5+ saves the Qd1. For your game, after 4. Bc4 Be7, how about 5. d4 threatening to win a Pawn - if 5 ... Nf6 6. Nc3 is a nice Vienna, and Black taking on d4 or f4 gives you the center. But I also think 8. fe de helped Black, so maybe 8. h3 or 8. Bb5 instead keeping the tension for now. Finally, 9. Qe1?! weakened c2; perhaps 9. h3 or 9. Be3 instead. What do you think, sirs? |
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Jun-01-04 | | MatrixManNe0: Alright, looks like we're only looking at the defenses here (well for the most part.. I guess...), but anyway... Anyone care to draw a comparison between 3. Bc4 and 3. Nf3? Lately, I've been attracted to the King's Gambit and to 3. Bc4, as many tend to fall to 3... Qh4+ 4. Kf1 Bc5 5. d4 Bb6 6. Nf3 when I gain two important tempi. Why is 3. Nf3 the 'main line'? |
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Jun-02-04 | | square dance: <paultopia> i play a lot of kings gambit in blitz so i will offer you a couple of ideas. im not sure which time controls you use but maybe these suggestions will be helpful. 6...Bg4 7.c3 is a move i have used before to prevent any ideas of Nc6-d4. it will also allow you to play b4 to prevent Na5 which will chase your bishop of its preferred diagonal. if however 7.c3 Na5 8.Be2 BxNf3 9.RxBf3 0-0 (Qd7) 10.b4 this move will come in handy as well if your opponent is thinking about castling queenside. these moves have worked well for me in fast games, but in a slower time controls you can most likely find better moves. 7.Nc3? Nd4 either winning the exchange or causing you to play g2xf3 which leaves your king in serious jeopardy. after 7.Nc3? Na5?? you can play 8.Bxf7+! KxB 9.fxe dxe 10.Nxe5 winning the bishop plus two pawns. i think 6.d3 locking your bishop out of the kingside and Qe1 were the problems in the line you gave. even 6.d4 exd 7.Qd3 allowing a later Qb3 would've done better for you i think. 9.Be3 seems to be called for here. i dont think 9.h3 would work as 9...Bh5 then if 10.g4 Nxg4 11.hxNg4 Bxg4 and your king is about as exposed as it gets. hopefully these suggestions will help you. let me know if i made any errors, which is quite possible, as i am doing this in my head. |
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Jun-02-04 | | refutor: <matrix> 3.Nf3 is the "mainline" because a lot of people don't like playing the middlegame with an uncastled king ...as zak told spassky "if you don't like your king on f1, don't play the king's gambit" |
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Jun-03-04 | | MatrixManNe0: <refutor> Well, in my opinion, that's... not very good... (I'm not sure what words I am and am not allowed to use here...) so... Anyway, the entire point of the King's Gambit is to generate a quick attack, yes? Therefore, I believe it is fine, perhaps better, to play Bc4, as it already hits key point f7. White has defenses against the mate threats after Qh4+. The spoiling of the king's position is a minor detail which will be difficult for black to exploit, as white will gain rapid development after Nf3, d4, Nc3, etc. Perhaps one problem with this variation, however, may be the difficulty to bring the h-rook in play, as the tempi gained may not be enough to develop it. On the other hand, the queenside and kingside will be cleared, thus the a-rook may take action on the e-file. However, I do agree with you, refutor, if one does not like the king on f1, one should not play the king's gambit. |
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Jun-03-04 | | ruylopez900: MatrixMan and Refutor
I like Nf3 since it keeps the Black Queen away, prepares to play Ne5 (again hitting f7 w/ that Bishop). Also when I castle (and I usually do) its not for King safety (you don't play this opening for that =D) but to get my Rook on f1 to be lazering down, yet again et the f7 pawn. All three attackers can be quite powerful, especially if your opponent allows it early on. |
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Jun-03-04 | | marekg248: This opening is rather shaky for white, if black plays it well. See this example, Bronstein was just crushed. Bronstein vs Botvinnik, 1952
I like Botvinnik's comments on opening moves, 3. ... d5 is a good move, and 6. bxc6 (instead of Nxc6 ) forces bishop to move, which gains time, valuable in open games. Note that black didn't play g5 in the opening, i.e. move common in earlier times, and protected f pawn with knight and bishop. |
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Jun-03-04 | | ruylopez900: <marekg248> The Kings Gambit is not shaky. It is actually sound. Also showing one game of someone being "crushed" doesn't mean anything. In 1952 Botvinnik was WC or in one of his "retreats" so I think its less that Bronstein got crushed with the King's Gambit and more, the WC curshed Bronstein. |
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Jun-04-04 | | marekg248: <ruylopez900: Also showing one game of someone being "crushed" doesn't mean anything.> OK, I take it, but still for me KG isn't very safe an opening. The year 1952 is wrong, the game was played in 1951 in a WC match, Botvinnik hadn't played at tournaments for 2 years, while Bronstein had been playing and winning all that time. It was a surprise for Botvinnik himself that Bronstein didn't win the WC title. |
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Jun-04-04 | | refutor: the line given with 6. ...bxc6 is a good enough line for white, based on a similar idea that tchigorin used v. the falkbeer in the 19th century. i don't know why people are so quick to try and "refute" the king's gambit...can you imagine if people said stuff like...'this opening is rather shaky for black, if white plays it well. see this example, kasparov was just crushed. Akopian vs Kasparov, 2002 ' (referring to 3.Bb5 v. the Sicilian) the line botwinnik played in the game above is just as good (or bad) as any other line v. the king's gambit, it's always possible to lose a game by playing poorly...and i think that's what bronstein (and kasparov) did in their respective games |
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Jun-04-04 | | marekg248: OK I guess you're right. I must admit king's gambit is an interesting opening, with very sharp fighting right away from the start. Maybe I'm little more positional inclined. :) |
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Jun-27-04 | | Recklessmove: After years of opening 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 et, I have been blissfully rejuvinated with the Kings Gambit. I win around 75% of my games when playing it as white. It is dyn o mite! I love giving pieces away for position and WINNING! It is absolutely the best opening for in your face, knock your socks off chess! |
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Jul-18-04 | | QueensGambitAccepted: "Anyone care to draw a comparison between 3. Bc4 and 3. Nf3?" I play 3.Bc4 over 3.Nf3 many chess writers think this Kings Gambit is so analyzed so one can only get a draw but there is still lots of paths
that are unexplored in the most important line.
It's alot of fun to play but if your playing against it you have to
be ready for anything especially sacs that may come in a flash! |
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Jul-19-04
 | | cu8sfan: <QueensGambitAccepted> Welcome to this great site! When Gallagher reintroduced the King's Gambit with his book <Winning with the King's Gambit> he only analyzed the line 3.♘f3 and wrote in his foreword <...my apologies to those fans of the Bishop's, and various other third move gambits, but my advice to you is to start playing 3♘f3>. I think he was right at the time but this might have lead to an over-analyzing of the King's Knight Gambit so there are many treasures to be found in the King's Bishop Gambit and it may be easier to surprise your opponent, too. |
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Jul-19-04 | | QueensGambitAccepted: cu8sfan thanks for the welcome
3.Nf3 has alot of hairy lines especially the Muzio Gambit it's
tactical dynamite with pitfall/traps for black and white if one player doesn't know the main lines as well as the other guy if he makes one
little slip up all hell can break loose. |
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Jul-19-04 | | BiLL RobeRTiE: The Muzio seems a bit incorrect to me. In fact, I think both players need to make somewhat dubious moves in order to get to it: 1 e4 e5 2 f4 exf4 3 Nf3 g5 4 Bc4?! (4 h4!) 4...g4?! (4...h6!) and now I guess O-O is probably the right move. |
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Aug-30-04 | | morphy234: 3. Bc4 is un-bustable!!! |
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Sep-10-04 | | athyn: <3. Bc4 is un-bustable>
I don't know much about openings, but I don't understand why white would allow check after this move, which prevents castling..
Isn't castling early a cardinal 'rule' of chess? |
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Sep-10-04 | | refutor: <isn't castling early a cardinal 'rule' of chess?> not in the king's gambit...like spassky has said "if you're afraid of playing with your king on f1, don't play the king's gambit" <bill robertie> i would think that 4. ...Bg7! is better than 4. ...h6 |
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Sep-10-04 | | Leviathan: <athyn> It depends. Also in my opinion 3.Nc3 is more solid because 3. ... Qh4+ isn't threatened anymore, but also 3.Bc4 is a valid move. The KG strategic goal is to open the f file to start an attack on the weak f7 square. 3.Bc4 is an aggressive move, aiming directly to f7. <Isn't castling early a cardinal 'rule' of chess? > I think this is a bad advice: I've often made the mistake of castling too early! If you really want a 'cardinal rule' :) to follow, I think this one is more precise: The defender should always castle before the attacker (by 'attacker' I mean the player who has the initiative and/or an advantage in development) to avoid giving the attacker an 'objective' to aim his stategy to, before the defender has a developed position. So, do not hesitate to keep your king in the middle sometimes: wait and see how the position evolves before choosing a side for castling! (But I'd like to precise that chess has no dogmas but only general guidelines - obviously there is no strategic behavior which is correct in absolutely every position) |
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Sep-10-04 | | athyn: <refutor> <Leviathan> thanks for the quick response.. |
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