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Jul-27-11
 | | perfidious: <Jim> The runs scored are consistent with having players such as Maris and Berra hitting behind him, plus all those BB. Do you remember James' article on the '61 Yankees? For all their power (240 HRs), they didn't even lead the league in runs scored, that team being Tigers, as <Phony Benoni> would doubtless know. |
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| Jul-27-11 | | YouRang: <Jim Bartle: I agree that baseball was better when four teams made the playoffs, not eight.
Baseball has added the excitement of an extra round of playoffs, but it eliminated pennant races between top teams.> I'll put in an opposing point:
Yes, sometimes there were exciting pennant races, but as I recall, it was more frequent that one team got a big lead over the other teams in the division and coasted to the playoffs. When that happened, the other teams in the division were realistically out of the running several weeks before the season was over, and fan interest in many cities no doubt waned. Adding the wildcard does a couple good things, IMO:
(1) It keeps several more teams "in the hunt" for a longer period of time, which retains fan interest and excitement. (2) There have been several cases where the wildcard team was clearly better than one of the division championship teams. Therefore, the wildcard eliminates the "injustice" of having one of the better teams shut out of the playoffs simply because they were unfortunate enough to be in the same division with the best team. So -- I like the wildcard and I think 8 teams is about right. ~~~~
Now, in basketball, I think the number of teams making the playoffs is excessive. I believe better than half the teams make the playoffs -- which almost renders the regular season meaningless. |
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| Jul-27-11 | | Jim Bartle: I agree there are good arguments for and against the wild card. I prefer without. Yes, I did read James' article on the 1961 Yankees. He focused on the fact that Richardson and Kubek, the first two hitters, were so weak that year that they only scored something like 80 runs each, despite the two guys behind them hitting 115 home runs. |
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Jul-27-11
 | | Phony Benoni: <perfidious> A duplicate message from you sneaked in somehow, and I deleted it. Yes, the 61 Tigers had some lineup. Norm Cash, with his .361 average and 41 home runs, hit 5th most of the year behind Kaline (.324) and Colavito (45 home runs). The 1-2 hitters, Jake Wood and and Billy Bruton, were not specatcular (96 and 99 runs scored) but probably better than Richardson-Kubek. The Yankees won that year with a more solid top-to-bottom pitching staff, deeper bench, superior fielding, and experience. |
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| Jul-28-11 | | Jim Bartle: The 61 Yankees are reputed to be one of the great offensive powerhouses, and the 61 Tigers scored even more runs. So why when I saw them play at Yankee Stadium, the score was 1-0? |
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Jul-28-11
| | perfidious: <Phony Benoni> Agreed on Wood/Bruton; while their averages were lower, they drew more walks and each had higher OBPs than the Yankee duo. Wood had a nice rookie campaign in '61, but never came close to those numbers again. Any idea why? Just looked him up on Wikipedia; curious how players can appear there whilst only having an at-bat or two, but he had almost 1900 AB and doesn't even rate a mention. |
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Jul-28-11
| | Phony Benoni: <perfidious> Jake Wood's second year was awful, with his average dropping to .226. This labelled him as a part-time player, and he was never able to break out of that mold. His biggest problem was in the field; he led the AL in errors in 1961 and 1962. The Tigers eventually brought in a good fielding 2B in Jerry Lumpe, and had a potential All-Star 2B in Dick McAuliffe playing SS. No room for Jake. |
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Jul-28-11
 | | playground player: <Phony Benoni> Not only did the 1961 Tigers score more runs than the 1961 Yankees, widely considered one of the greatest teams of all time. They also had Frank Lary beating the Yankees half a dozen times! And I don't think he lost to them, either. But every Strat-O-Matic fan knows the difference between Bobby Richardson and Jake Wood... |
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Jul-28-11
| | Phony Benoni: <playground player> Lary went "only" 4-2 against the Yankees in 1961. He was 28-13 against them lifetime, with a top mark of 7-1 in 1958--a season he finished at 16-15. Nobody could explain it. He was just a tough, tireless worker with the perfect middle name: <Frank Strong Lary>. 1961 was his best year, at 23-9. Unfortunately, like so many good pitchers who suddenly have a Cy Young caliber season, he apparently blew his arm out that year and was never the same again. |
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Jul-28-11
 | | keypusher: <YouRang>
Good points. Because I live in NY I would have been treated to exciting pennant races almost every year over the last decade if there were no wild card. So I'm biased. Anyway, it seems to me that there should be some relationship between the length of the season and the number of teams that make the playoffs. For most of baseball history you had two teams out of 16. Now it's 8 out of 30. Why play 162 regular season games if more than a quarter of the league goes to the playoffs? |
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| Jul-28-11 | | Jim Bartle: I remember Lary as an excellent pitcher in the first years I followed baseball. OK, here's a challenge for PB and everybody else:
In the first inning today the A's hit for the cycle in sequence: single followed by double followed by triple followed by a home run. No outs mixed in. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ba... How many times has this been done before? |
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Jul-28-11
| | Phony Benoni: <JB> No idea, but we can be certain someone will look it up before Film at 11. I remember an apocryphal story about that situation arising. The manager came out to pull the pitcher who said, "Why are taking me out? There's nobody on base!" |
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| Jul-28-11 | | Jim Bartle: In "You Know Me Al" by Ring Lardner the busher was getting hammered. The manager Gleason came out and the pitcher said, "I'm not tired." Gleason said, "No, but the outfielders are." A's five-run first now has them trailing 9-5 versus Tampa Bay. |
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| Jul-28-11 | | YouRang: <keypusher> I'm not so sure that the number of playoff-bound teams should depend on the length of the season. The length of the season depends more on the sport itself. Playing 162 games works okay for baseball, but it would be out of the question for football or even basketball. (Personally, I think even 162 games is excessive, but tradition seems to demand it.) Anyway, I think the number of playoff-bound teams should be primarily based on (1) the total number of teams, and (2) what ratio makes sense to produce a good playoff schedule (ideally one would like the number of playoff teams to be a power of 2 so that a knockout playoff system works cleanly). Generally, a ratio between 25% to 40% works best, but it's subjective. If the ratio is too high, then the regular season starts to lose meaningfulness. Too low, and the excitement and interest can fade too soon for too many teams. |
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Jul-28-11
| | Phony Benoni: I'd have to favor the wild card simply because of the geographical division set-up. Any playoff system should bring together the best teams, but there is almost always a division winner which is not nearly as strong as several wild card contenders from other divisions. The wild card at least provides one chance to redress this injustice. In fact, it would be nice if they could get rid of divisions completely and just go to the best 2 or 4 teams, but travel considerations and natural rivalries won't allow that. |
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Jul-28-11
| | Phony Benoni: Oh, those scandalous French ladies! (See the filler note in the lower right corner, below the chess diagram and above the ad.) http://fultonhistory.com/Newspaper%... |
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Jul-29-11
| | perfidious: <Phony Benoni> Tres risque for 1925! |
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Jul-29-11
| | Phony Benoni: <JB>: Regarding teams hitting for the cycle with four consecutive batters: http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/... Rockies 8th inning. I went in through an Oakland website which mentioned it was the first time the A's had done it since they moved to Oakland. Should probably look for a comprehensive list. |
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Jul-30-11
| | keypusher: Was at Yankee stadium Friday night to see fourteen-game loser Jeremy Guthrie shut down NY...hope he's on his way to a better place by now. Clearly whoever the O's sent up tonight wasn't as good. Yankees scored 12 in the first. |
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Jul-31-11
 | | WannaBe: You witnessed history my friend!! |
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Jul-31-11
| | Phony Benoni: When do we not witness history? |
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| Jul-31-11 | | Jim Bartle: Time to trade the bum. Verlander only made it into the eighth with his no-hitter today. Starting to slack off, getting old. |
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Jul-31-11
| | Phony Benoni: His own fault. He participated in a couple of shoddy defensive misplays in the eighth that gave the Angels at least two extra outs. Could be some bad blood brewing between the teams. Tigers runs came on two homers which the batters admired from home plate. After the second one, Angels pitcher Jared Weaver expressed his displeasrue by throwing the next pitch at the batter's head, and got ejected. So in the eighth the Angels hitter leads off with a bunt, which Verlander threw away for a two-base error. For some reason, late-inning bunts when the opposing pitcher has a no-hitter going are supposed to be a breach of etiquette. I don't understand that myself. I mean, if you can't hit the guy, you gotta try something! The next game between these two teams should be interesting. |
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Jul-31-11
 | | OhioChessFan: <PB: For some reason, late-inning bunts when the opposing pitcher has a no-hitter going are supposed to be a breach of etiquette. > If a team is losing by 10 runs, yeah, it is. But normally, it doesn't bother me much. Make the guy run some to field his position and tire him out. |
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Aug-01-11
| | WannaBe: Ther'e are many, many, 'unspoken' rules and quote/unquote etiquettes in baseball, why did Weaver get mad in the Detroit game, back a few years ago, (okay, maybe 10, or 12), someone who did hit a home run, got the stare down/brush back because he simply stood in the batters box too long. (I do not remember the game, nor the pitcher/batter, but I do remember it was a 'big deal' back then...) Remember when Jeter crossed the pitching mound last year in Oakland, and some no-name rookie yelled at him? In baseball, there are probably more rules that we do not 'know' than that we 'know'. (I will attribute that to Yogi...) |
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