| Jan-23-11 | | KingV93: This is why I root against Kramnik. A 19 move draw against a player that, frankly, Kramnik should beat, even with black. Lazy day? didn't feel like thinking? no novelties worth uncorking against Ponomariov? Are you telling me Kramnik, former 'World Champion', can't do better than this? Can't come up with Something to beat a clearly inferior opponent? Kramnik is bad for chess, as boring as watching a computer play. |
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| Jan-23-11 | | arnaud1959: Early exchanges and a symmetrical pawn structure. Difficult to get anything out of this position. |
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| Jan-23-11 | | Marmot PFL: The rating difference between the two is only about 50 points, probably less than the white pieces are worth at this level. |
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| Jan-23-11 | | ycpl: IMO, black stands a little bit better after Rc8 (if Nxb7 Rc1+) |
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| Jan-23-11 | | KingV93: This is game 8 out of 13. 1/2 of a point puts Kramnik in a tie for the lead, something worth striving for if he'd like to win the tournament. They may be 40 points apart in ELO but Kramnik is a far more experienced veteran player and this game seems like an opportunity to pick up the full point as black, especially if black wins are any kind of tie breaker. Playing something that doesn't lead to a neutral, drawish looking position might have given him that chance. Losing this tournament by half a point is not going to do anything for him. |
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| Jan-23-11 | | polarmis: As others have said (including Sergey Shipov), Kramnik played an opening that can be very sharp. It was Ponomariov who decided to avoid main lines and play quietly. Ponomariov is by no means a player Kramnik "should" beat with either colour, of course - he won his last major tournament, in Dortmund, and that included a crushing win as White against Kramnik. |
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| Jan-24-11 | | lorker: <KingV93> Do you know anything about Ponomariov whatsoever? Your comments sound quite ignorant and make it seem as though you'd rank him in the same class as say, Smeets. Ponomariov is a world class player and definitely not someone whom Kramnik <should beat, even with black>. While Kramnik probably is definitely the more experienced of the two his record against Ponomariov isn't that great and furthermore the difference in their levels is not that great either. |
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| Jan-24-11 | | fgh: <KingV93: Are you telling me Kramnik, former 'World Champion', can't do better than this?> He is the former WC, perhaps you should learn how to use quotation marks. <KingV93: Kramnik is bad for chess, as boring as watching a computer play.> Speak for your yourself, wiseacre. |
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| Jan-25-11 | | haydn20: The Ragozin is (unless I'm greatly mistaken) a rather quiet line, and it seems to me that neither player really wanted to mix it up. The final position is devoid of any dynamism. |
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| Jan-25-11 | | Eyal: <The Ragozin is (unless I'm greatly mistaken) a rather quiet line> Not necessarily. Like most openings, it can both be quiet and get extremely sharp, depending on which variations the players choose. Take a look at a previous Ragozin game between those two players, when Kramnik was White: Kramnik vs Ponomariov, 2009. |
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| Jan-25-11 | | jussu: Now this game is a really bad choice when one wants to bash Kramnik for quiet play - it was clearly white who avoided ambitious lines here. |
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| Jan-25-11 | | acirce: Yep, kind of blaming the Najdorf player if White plays 3.Bb5+. |
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| Feb-07-11 | | KingV93: <lorker> Well, I haven't read Ponomaroivs' bio lately but yes, I'm a bit familiar with who he is, and I feel that yes, he is a strong, world class player, but that Kramnik should beat the guy (meaning win...full point) 5 times outta ten. If this is a quiet line of "Queen's Gambit Declined: Ragozin Defense. Alekhine Variation" then you'll have to pardon me, I'm not familiar with it, and if white chose a safe line so he wouldn't get smashed it seems to suggest that even Pono thinks his chances against Kramnik are about what I think they are. It's my opinion that a player who is striving for the very pinnacle of competition trys to make something happen for himself, Kramnik does not do this. Not over the board anyway. I'm willing to start another round of retorts by saying that Topalov would've ground out a full point if he wanted it and if Kaspy was still playing he'd have crushed the kid too. <fgh> sheesh, did I strike a nerve? say something less than praiseful for your guy? How's this: The former World Champion Vladimir Kramnik. feel better? I probably put it in quotes because Not replaying Kasparov was gutless. A world champion shouldn't run from anbody. Tournaments full of slavs, semi-slavs, catalans. I find this kind of positional chess boring. It IS like watching a computer play, and for those of you that like that stuff then bully for you, have at it and enjoy. It's an opinion, try to not let your shorts get too tight over it. |
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| Feb-07-11 | | KingV93: Well...after reading some more of the posts I'm glad I started a lively discussion! If this is a bad game for bashing Kramnik for quiet play I'll try to post that stuff in the 1000 or so other games where he plays unambitious chess. They are even in classical games, but the last time Pono beat him in classical chess outside of Dortmund was 2005!, in rapid and blitz Kramnik owns him and Kramnik has secured the full point in this "Queens Gambit Declined Ragozin" thing twice before. I still feel that a player of his experience who is where he is in his career (striving to become World Champion! again) should play something that can secure a point with black when the tournament is there to win. I do believe that a 'home prep guy' like Kramnik (yes, yes, they all are at this level to some extent) has something in this line as black that gives him a chance. He plays it enough it seems. Maybe he's saving it for Anand. I hope they play again soon, I need to catch up on my nap time. |
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| Feb-07-11 | | Kinghunt: <They are even in classical games, but the last time Pono beat him in classical chess outside of Dortmund was 2005!> The last time Kramnik beat Ponomariov outside of Tal was also 2005. What's your point? |
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| Feb-07-11 | | lorker: From <KingV93>'s bio:
<I'll apologize here in advance for any blatant stupidity in my posts,and give thanks for your patience and insight.>
Apology accepted.
And why the pugnacious tone? e.g. <(meaning win...full point)> Why would you even bother to say that? You felt you had to be insulting to cover up your own ignorance. Based on Kramnik and Ponomariov's classical history it is easy to see that your claim is nonsensical. Furthermore a 50 point rating difference in ratings definitely makes it statistically very unlikely that Kramnik would, to borrow your words < beat the guy (meaning win...full point) 5 times outta ten.> That is, unless Ponomariov "wins the full point" in 3 or 4 of the other games. Either way you should probably brush up on your knowledge of chess before you continue making such (self -admittedly) ignorant posts. |
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| Feb-07-11 | | Bdellovibrio: <Maybe he's saving it for Anand.> We can be certain that this is the case, based on Kramnik's own comments after the tournament. |
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| Feb-09-11 | | KingV93: <lorker> Well I'm not a chess expert but I was definitely not apologizing to you for what I've posted here in the preface of my own bio. There is no
'blatant stupidity' to apologize for and I'm certianly not being 'pugnacious' or insulting, to cover up 'ignorance'? or anything else. I did state it was an opinion, Kramnik should beat Ponomariov. With black. Especially if he's close to winning a big tourney. No color commentary about Pono choosing the safe line? Are you just throwing personal firebombs? All the pontificating about 'self admitted ignorance' and such does nothing to justify a different opinion based on what I must assume you think is your greater and far more insightful chess knowledge? Why don't you give me a chess related reason to think that Kramnik shouldn't feel that he can get the full point with black against Ponomariov? Other than ELO point spread vs. the white pieces blah blah blah... |
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| Feb-10-11 | | KingV93: <kinghunt> Kramnik beat Ponomaroiv as black in the 'Queens Gambit declined Ragozin' in rapid play at Amber 2010. He beat Pono with white in the same opening at the Tal memorial in 2009. The other win was with black in a semi-slav 2009, and another with white in a Reti in 2008. Even if two of the wins are rapid and blitz I think this is enough to suggest Kramnik should be feeling he can get a full point with black against Ruslan Ponomariov if he wants to win a tournament that is within his reach with said full point. <lorker> None of this is 'pugnacious' or 'blatant ignorance'. I think that using that kind of potshotting is pugnacious and ignorant. |
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| Mar-03-11 | | lorker: <KingV93> Well I still don't understand why your so sure Kramnik feels confident he can beat Ponomariov with black. You keep listing Kramnik wins against Ponomariov. First, rapid and blitz are very different from slow time controls. And second, why not think about their last classical encounter, where Ponomariov had white. Kramnik was soundly beaten in that game. That may have contributed to his not minding a draw in this game. Also, are you knowledgeable about the Ragozin? It is quite hard for black to gain many winning chances against the line Ponomariov played. It seems more like Ponomariov steered the game to a draw than it seems like Kramnik did nothing. |
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Mar-03-11
 | | Oginschile: Not really commentary on the current conversation, but perhaps a tangent. Seems to me when Pono won the World Championship, a lot of people's dislike for the format transferred to negative feelings toward Pono himself. I even saw some commentary from some heavy hitters in the chess world that seemed to belittle Ponomariov, seemingly as a direct result of him winning the knockout championship. But his resume of wins speaks for itself. He's not a player that anybody should (or does) take lightly. While his play does seem to fluctuate a little more than I see in other top players, he is still very worthy of his rating.
Not sure Ponomariov should be considered a good bet to lose with the white pieces against anyone, except maybe Rybka. |
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| Mar-07-11 | | KingV93: <lorker> No, I am not familiar with the Queens gambit declined; Ragozin very much at all. It is certainly possible that White chose a quiet variation so as to not take too many risks and get 1/2 point from this game. If that is the case it would seem to suggest that Ponomariov also thinks that Kramnik has a good chance of getting the full point if he's not careful. I do know that Ponomariov is a world class GM and a top player, certainly no pushover for anyone. My earlier kibitz was simply intended to point out that Kramnik; one of the top players in the world for quite some time now, experienced, accurate to the nth degree and a powerful professional, should make a real effort to get the whole point when the tournament is there for the winning. He does have a good record against Ponomariov. Yes, I know blitz and rapid are not classical chess but winning gives you a mental edge against the opponent. Kramnik plays this opening from both sides and has had success with it against this particular player. No doubt Kramnik has something as black that he feels can give him an edge; his home preparation is phenomenal and powerful; maybe he is just saving it for a world champ rematch against Vishy...and I would've liked to see something more aggressive from such a proficient player; something that shows fighting spirit, 'elan, and hopefully a tactical brilliancy (my own taste). The games we've seen on the site recently have impressed me when it comes to seeing Kramnik attack and demolish the opponent. I like that kind of chess and he's capable of it. If he wanted to win this tournament he should've tried to take down Ponomariov with Black and get the point, not draw in under 20 moves. That's all I said, nothing intentionally derogatory or inflammatory, nothing blatantly stupid, an opinion with at least as much justification as many if not most of the 'opinions' posted here. |
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Kibitzing
