< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Sep-04-12|| ||paavoh: @Bobby Fiske: <Is this sac thematic?>
A similar "piece for pawns and initiative" sac was played a few years back in Nyback-Carlsen (1-0).|
|Sep-04-12|| ||messachess: Yes, this is impressive. I wonder if GMs like this work this kind of thing out as themes to spring when the opportunity (and an opponent you really want to crush!) arises.|
|Sep-04-12|| ||Eyal: With 18...f6, Aronian was apparently being extra-careful in preparing Bd6 - preventing Ne5 after the exchange of bishops. But it turns out to create a fatal weakness along the 7th rank which allows Kramnik's combination to work - for example, 26...Rb7 would lose to 27.Rxc6! Rxb6 28.Rxc8+ Kf7/g7 29.Rc7 winning back the queen and remaining two pawns up (whereas with the pawn on f7, Black would be ok after 28...Kg7).|
|Sep-04-12|| ||ashalpha: It's amazing really that the imminently logical 21...Rc7? is a losing move. The rest flows logically from this idea but what a conception in the first place!|
|Sep-04-12|| ||hedgeh0g: 23.Nxb7!!, while seemingly obvious, was actually a very deep sacrifice. No doubt Aronian saw the sac, but figured it was unsound. My guess is he underestimated the threat posed by White's queenside majority.|
|Sep-04-12|| ||Everett: Here's a similar opening and theme of breakthrough on the Q-side. It's worth a look.|
Seirawan vs Christiansen, 1987
|Sep-04-12|| ||Everett: <paavoh: @Bobby Fiske: <Is this sac thematic?> A similar "piece for pawns and initiative" sac was played a few years back in Nyback-Carlsen (1-0).>|
You are kidding us, right? Why not go back somewhere near the beginning of such sacs? Bronstein vs Botvinnik, 1951 Note 27.Bxb6. And this is not nearly the first time this cropped up...
And Kramnik is a master of the Q-side piece sac for mobile pawns. Just search Catalan and Kramnik. You'll find the famous one Kramnik vs Leko.
|Sep-04-12|| ||Karpova: Fontaine: When you sacrificed a piece, did you already understand that the position is winning?|
Kramnik: <Well I thought so, but from another point of view, when you play against such a strong player, you always have doubts maybe he has some ace up his sleeve. When I sacrificed I already saw the situation with Qb6, and all this line with Rb7, Rc6, Rb8, Qb8. I did not really consider Qa8. I thought that after Qa8 I can even play only Kh1 and then B5. But then I calculated b5, the line that I played in the game was not difficult, it was quite simple. I had a feeling that after Ka5 Black’s position is already difficult. I think Rc7 is a mistake. He should have done something else, but Black’s position is already uncomfortable, especially with a pawn on f6. If a pawn would be on f7, something could be done maybe. But f6 pawn is not a fun at all. Then everything worked out tactically.>
|Sep-04-12|| ||OneArmedScissor: Classic Kramnik style: taking seemingly innocuous positions and winning them with a passed pawn.|
|Sep-04-12|| ||Ulhumbrus: After 22 Nxb7 in return for the knight Kramnik gets two connected passed a and b pawns and in the present case the passed b pawn turns out to be strong enough to win.|
|Sep-04-12|| ||solskytz: Didn't 26...Rb7 offer better chances? The idea is to untangle by going 27... Ne7 after the Q moves|
|Sep-04-12|| ||Eyal: <solskytz> As I mentioned in a previous post, 26...Rb7 loses to 27.Rxc6! Rxb6 28.Rxc8+ Kf7/g7 29.R(either one)c7 winning back the queen and remaining two pawns up. The queen doesn't have to retreat after 26...Rb8 either - this loses to 27.Qxb8+! Nxb8 28.Rxc7, with the white rooks creating havoc in the black camp.|
|Sep-04-12|| ||sicilianhugefun: It seems that Volodya is trying to make a statement... He can settle for a draw against anyone effortlesly and smash even the strongest in majestic style.|
|Sep-04-12|| ||solskytz: <Eyal> thx!|
|Sep-04-12|| ||rapidcitychess: Ala Capablanca, he makes Aronian look like a child. Simplistic ideals that were underestimated, and destruction is the end result.|
|Sep-04-12|| ||visayanbraindoctor: <rapidcitychess: Ala Capablanca>|
I thought this game has the same theme as Capablanca vs Lilienthal, 1936
Best game of the Olympiad so far.
<Karpova: Fontaine: When I sacrificed I already saw the situation with Qb6>
That's downright astonishing! 26. Qb6 is the type of quiet move that is incredibly hard to find because most players do not even consider it in their list of candidate moves in their calculations. (Apparently, even Houdini did not consider it as well.)
|Sep-05-12|| ||paavoh: @Everett <You are kidding us, right?> Of course not. I did not mean to imply that Nyback-Carlsen was the only prior example. You are right to point out that such or similar sacs can be found earlier. I was just making a note of a recent, rather notable game that I recalled.|
|Sep-05-12|| ||Eyal: <(Apparently, even Houdini did not consider it (26.Qb6) as well.)>|
An engine automatically considers all the legal moves in a position... and with enough ply-depth Houdini certainly comes to evaluate Qb6 as the best move. But in the position after 21...Rc7 it does take quite a bit of ply-depth (about 20-21 on my engine) to appreciate how strong is 22.Na5, followed some moves later by Qb6 – more than the ply-depth that was provided by the live "computer-kibitzing" on the official site; which is why it wasn’t showing 22.Na5 as top recommendation before Kramnik played the move and people started saying that "the computer didn’t see it". At any rate, the ply-depth needed for the engine to appreciate the strength of 22.Na5 and then 26.Qb6 does indicate the depth of calculation required to make sure this combination works.
|Sep-05-12|| ||rapidcitychess: <visayanbraindocter> |
Funny, I haven't even seen that game. I will make an effort to store it in my memory banks.
Also, I will just say: Having some one who makes as intelligent posts as <visayan> agree with me makes me feel accomplished. ^^
|Sep-05-12|| ||Ulhumbrus: 26 Qb6!! pins the knight on c6 by attacking indirectly for a third time the rook on c7|
|Sep-05-12|| ||visayanbraindoctor: <rapidcitychess> De nada. I read your comments myself whenever I come across them. (",)|
|Sep-06-12|| ||jefballard: Future GOTD|
|Sep-10-12|| ||lemaire90: Crazy game by Kramnik !! Every move is perfect. No doubt Russia was disappointing with the silver.|
|Sep-11-12|| ||Honza Cervenka: Let Kramnik to create a passed Pawn and you can just resign. This game reminds me Kramnik vs Aronian, 2006, Kramnik vs Aronian, 2007 or Kramnik vs Aronian, 2010|
|Sep-11-12|| ||SChesshevsky: It looks like 7...g6 might not be best in the exch Slav.|
The loss of the ...g6 and Bg7 tempo's might have helped White double those rooks on the c-file and the Black B on g7 doesn't look that well placed anyway.
And further tempo's with ...f6 and ...Bf8...Bd6 strangely looked to allow White's Nf3 to travel a long way without any real counterplay.
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