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| Jul-11-05 | | supertimchan: <But I'm not sure what you mean by "real", None of them are Native Americans, in fact, I don't think that a Native American has ever earned a FIDE title.> Isn't the world champion Fischer borned in USA? |
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| Jul-11-05 | | Kangaroo: To <Eric Schiller>: Thanks for the corrected spelling. This confirms my status: a citizen of the US with all other attributes you listed, and no deep knowledge of the origins (read Shakespeare in translation only). There is a simple explanation why chess has not become as popular in the US as it was in the fSU [= former Soviet Union]: children and young people have too many alternative attractions and do not suffer from the pressure of ideology. This reason basically explains why there was such a strong trend toward mathematics and musics, other arts, not chess alone. Other sports activities can probably also be included here, yet I am not an expert in all external hobbies and professions. |
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| Jul-11-05 | | vonKrolock: <Eric Schiller: I don't think that a Native American has ever earned a FIDE title.> This can be true for Canada, Brazil, and the USA. In countries where the population of Native Amerindians is greater, like Peru, Colombia, or Mexico i'm sure we would find players with Native background ostenting some FIDE title |
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| Jul-11-05 | | arielbekarov: For your knowledge!
The games from yesterday will be aired
Sunday, July 24, 2005.
From what I understand the overall importance of this match between
USA vs Russia is the tremendous large amount of spectators it will reach!
It is something great for chess as a sport!
Personally is chess for me the epitome of art/science/sport and with this event chess will hopefully take a big step forward as a TV-sport.
Susan Polgar who is a great chessambassador puts enormous much effort to promoting chess and she did the right move by becoming a citizen of USA. The mentality in France, where I live and in Europe in general is too slow for dynamic personalities like Susan Polgar.
In France would she meet so many obstacles that getting the penguins on the Antarctic playing the most complicated variants of Queens-Indian would seem like a much easier option and in a warmer surrounding than in France even during winter-time.
Salut!
Ariel |
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Jul-11-05
 | | Sneaky: Well, the two strongest chess players who ever lived were Americans--the USA might be a desert of chess talent, but when it rains in our desert, it really pours. |
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| Jul-11-05 | | sibilare: Eric Schiller,
Being a Native American myself.
I have met up with good chess players whom are Native. They are just not invovled with the circle which you are familiar with. |
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Jul-11-05
 | | Eric Schiller: <sibilare> That's good to hear! American chess should have participants from every sector of society. Last year I had discussion with a member of a tribe that was building a new casino, and we discussed sponsorship of a tournament as a good way to get publicity. Sadly, nothing came of it. I know that there are many Native Americans who play chess, but not of any masters. I hope we see some in the future. |
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| Jul-12-05 | | Kangaroo: Leaving aside all the fruitless discussions about native and non-native Americans playing chess, let me bring a few names that deserve to be listed. (1) Paul Morphy (2) Harry Nelson Pillsbury (3) Frank James Marshall (4) Reuben Fine (5) Robert James Fischer What unites them all is that they were all born in the US and managed to become on the top worlwide (most of them, at least). |
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| Jul-12-05 | | shortsight: <Well, the two strongest chess players who ever lived were Americans ... > Well, this is worth noting, but more prominent is that more than 10 of the world strongest chess players ever lived were/are Russians. |
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| Jul-12-05 | | alayo: Why is this considered Russia vs USA? All the players on both sides are Russians......no? |
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| Jul-12-05 | | alayo: I correct myself. Zsuzsa Polgar is not Russian :-) |
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| Jul-12-05 | | vonKrolock: Lasker and Kasparov Americans!? - Well, this is worth noting |
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| Jul-12-05 | | SnoopDogg: Defining who is an American is purely intuitive in my opinion. If you meet a man with a name such as Joe Smith or T.J. Taylor, you would assume these people to be American since they have American sounding names (or Americanized names if you will). Also basis on their accent is taken into account and where they were born or raised also. However wrong this may be, we can't kid ourselves if we were given the name Mike Foster and Vassily Zaitsev and asked to choose which one is the Russian and which is the American, everyone would choose Foster = American, Zaitsev = Russian. Regarding on whether we should consider the likes of Polgar, Onischuk, and Gulko as Americans, I think it is nonsense to say they are not Americans since they all live in the USA and play under the USCF. Unfortuanately, the American public stereotypes, as you see on this forum, who is American and who is an "immigrant." They are upset since they see a bunch of Russian emigrates playing for their country. Now this is human nature, especially for natives to want players that were BORN and raised in the USA and not just some "russian emigrates going to the USA to make more money" (this is a quote by the way on another forum, though offensive I don't think one could really make a strong case on how going to the US for financial reasons is bad). Anyways "native", does not have to be Indians or Native Americans if you will. Simply it can mean "many generations of your family have lived here and have assimilated" or just means you are born and raised here. Now a "native" American lineup would go as follows:
1. Hikaru Nakamura (raised here I know not born)
2. Larry Christiansen
3. Joel Benjamin
I'm probably forgetting someone but this lineup I don't think there would be much bickering on the subject of who is really American. |
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| Jul-12-05 | | azaris: I think for many people it simply means "white protestant male". |
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| Jul-12-05 | | alexandrovm: I don't think it matters. The greatest player of all time is from Baku, but he will be remember as a russian guy, no matter how hard the debate could be. |
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| Jul-12-05 | | gladiator367: Konechno Rossiskiye igroki vigrali... |
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| Jul-14-05 | | PhilFeeley: This all seems a little off topic to the match just played. Would anyone be interested to know that it was filmed for broadcast later this month? Granted, it's by the wretched Fox network, but still, it's chess on TV! You've got to love that! |
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Jul-14-05
| | Sneaky: What a lot of people don't realize about the "immigrants vs Americans" debate is that the public's opinion changes wildly across the decades. Somebody named, let's say, "Bob Martin" sounds like a "real" American name, but Martin is a German name, and there was a time (circa WWI) when Germans were looked at with a raised eyebrow... sort of like Americans think of Arabs these days. Maybe in the future "Muhammed Haji" will sound like a "real" American and some other group will be the villians. |
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Jul-14-05
| | Sneaky: alexandrovm, Radjabov's good, but come on, there must be better than him... ;-) |
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| Jul-14-05 | | Jafar219: <Sneaky> He is talking about Kasparov not Radjabov. |
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| Jul-14-05 | | alexandrovm: yes, thanks <Jafar219> :) About inmigrants, the World is full of it, all over the World. Perhaps one of the few comunity without inmigrants are the "gitanos" (cigans, I guess is called). In WWII, Hitler was from Austria (job: an artist), but still lead Germany to a political line and to war. |
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| Jul-14-05 | | popski: Who won here anyway, Russia or Russia? |
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| Jul-14-05 | | PhilFeeley: Here's the Chess on TV link info:
http://www.fairviewobserver.com/app... |
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| Jul-15-05 | | alexandrovm: lol <<<popski>>>. Russia won :) |
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Jul-16-05
 | | perfidious: <kangaroo> An addendum to your remarks
re the alternatives available in USA vs former USSR: Paul Keres noted in his later years that there were many more things to do for ambitious youngsters than play chess, by way of explaining the gap of top-class talents between Tal and Karpov. Also, though Spassky was the junior by two months, he took his first major stride towards the crown before Tal, at Bucharest 1953. |
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