< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 13 OF 13 ·
|May-15-15|| ||TheFocus: <A bad plan is better than none at all.> - Frank Marshall.|
|May-15-15|| ||john barleycorn: <I like it when a bad plan works>
|Jul-05-15|| ||zanzibar: Already mentioned by <MissS> above:|
Frank James Marshall (kibitz #295)
<Champion of the world in [...] Saltar>
I've actually seen two other references, both of which spell it <Salta>:
<always decked out in an ascot and chewing a cigar, his career coincided with many evolutionary changes in competitive chess. Marshall was a master gamesman. <He took up the game of salta, akin to Chinese checkers, and was soon world champion.> But more than anything, he loved chess, claiming that after he learned the game at 10 he played every day for the next 57 years. >
In my <Monte Carlo (1902>> research, I encountered another mention in the contemporaneous reporting when the organizers decided to delay the final round (later also the penultimate round as well), impacting both Pillsbury and Marshall's ability to partake in the Anglo-American cable match. There's also this:
<Marshall, moreover, is desirous of staying over another week, to participate in prospective tournament at salta, the world's championship of which is held by him.>
(The normal BDE coverage of this one issue is very poor in the Brooklyn library archive, Fulton at least has a readable copy)
|Jul-05-15|| ||zanzibar: Salta - wiki's page mentions Marshall.
|Jul-05-15|| ||RookFile: Marshall is right about the King's Gambit. I know a player who played the King's Gambit for upwards of 20 years. He said that the only thing he never saw was the "main line" ( 1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nf3 g5 etc. )|
|Jul-06-15|| ||keypusher: <Zanzibar> Not sure I am reading your figures correctly. 3.Bc4 is three times more popular than 3.Nf3 among 2400-rated players? That's surprising (and a tribute to Fischer's influence). What kind of sample size are we talking about here?|
|Jul-06-15|| ||zanzibar: <keypusher> Damn, I reversed those numbers. |
Good catch... I'd delete my bad post and repost with the correction.
|Jul-06-15|| ||zanzibar: Well, <RookFile>, SCID has a couple of opening books to look at -
<ELO2400> and <GM2600>|
where we can look at recent high level play.
<1.e4 e5> vs <1.e4 c5> _______ (21% 49%) vs (26% 44%)
KGA vs KGD __________________ (74% 26%) vs (100% 0%)
KGA knight vs bishop __________ (76% 23%) vs (56% 44%)
Then we have Black's move 3, so let's list several options for the two books
3...g5 ____ 27% _______ 3...g5 ____ 75%
3...d6 ____ 20% _______ 3...Be7 ___ 25%
3...d5 ____ 16%
3...Be7 ___ 14%
3...Ne7 ___ 12%
3...Nf6 ____ 6%
3...h6 _____ 5%
So it seems at some of GM's do play 3...g5 as Black.
The Tree Window gives a few top games for reference:
Nakamura vs D Andreikin, 2010
<Zvjaginsev, Vadim (2643) -- Akopian, Vladimir (2688) 11. EICC Men playoff (2.3) Rijeka CRO>
(and I thought Akopian only played the French!)
Fedorov vs Shirov, 2000
Morozevich vs A Aleksandrov, 2000
Short vs Shirov, 1997
Short vs D Howell, 2010
* * * * *
Fedorov vs Ivanchuk, 2001
Fedorov vs Adams, 1997
Nunn vs Timman, 1995
Black seems to do pretty well in this sample of games.
|Jul-06-15|| ||zanzibar: <keypusher> The question about the sample size is also good. |
I'll have to do a little research and report back. I think I knew it once upon a time...
|Jul-06-15|| ||zanzibar: <Taken from the copyright notice of the source:|
Files that are copyrighted by respective authors :
Book files (performance.bin and varied.bin): Marc Lacrosse
Book files (Elo2400.bin and gm2600.bin): Pascal Georges
Database files : Pascal Georges>
Georges took over SCID from Hudson.
|Jul-06-15|| ||zanzibar: Finding out about the SCID opening books is not easy. They were made with polyglot (a tool created by Fabien Letouzey, the guy who wrote Fruit and open sourced it - basically creating the world of engines that we know today).|
The opening books probably haven't been tweaked for years now. The exact data sets used for their creation, and the stats, aren't documented in the obvious place (e.g. the README.txt file in the books directory).
|Jul-06-15|| ||RookFile: Well, if you're a chess professional, you can prepare 3...g5 in the King's Gambit. I think the rest of us hackers can content ourselves with either 2...Bc5 or an early ...d5 break, as Marshall says. I was an ...e5 player for many years, maybe I saw a grand total of 10 King's Gambits.|
|Jul-06-15|| ||zanzibar: <RookFile> I'm lucky if I make hacker rank myself. |
Your (or Marshall's) suggestion to play a KGD with 2...d5 or 2...Bc5 is a good one, and FCO agrees
<In a way, these words are still valid today. Somehow or other, the King's Gambit seems to elude rational judgement. Coundess refutations of 2 f4 have been claimed, but each and every time the opening has survived the onslaught. It remains a source of inspiration to those who have courage and imagination. And even those who do not dare to play it, can learn a great deal from the wealth of variations this opening has to offer. There is only one theme here, yet it is an eternal one, the theme that no chess-player can avoid: the battle between the initiative and a material advantage.
The most prominent of these variations start with 2...exf4, the King's Gambit Accepted, but several other moves have also grown into full-blown variations, most notably 2...d5, the Falkbeer Counter-Gambit, and 2...!.c5, the principal form of the King's Gambit Declined.>
Anybody can bone up on the 3...g5 defense - White and Black. It's a question of temperament whether or not one wants to play it.
I agree that most White players don't play the King's Gambit, but it certainly shows up on FICS a lot, and I've certainly been crushed enough times as Black to confirm this fact. But for me, it's always a bit of a thrill to play the KGA out as Black and get a win.
|Jul-06-15|| ||perfidious: While known to respond to the KG with 2....d5 once or twice, I generally preferred acceptance with the Becker line (3....h6), which typically transposed into the Classical without allowing White to play down the main line of the Kieseritsky, via a move order such as 4.d4 g5 5.Bc4 d6 6.0-0 Bg7.|
My guess is that the KG player to whom <RookFile> refers was Rich Daly; the one time we met at the board, the game avoided the transposition into the main line of the Classical above, as he went in for a quick h4, hxg5 and exchange of rooks.
|Jul-07-15|| ||zanzibar: You can see Kingcrusher playing White against the Becker here:|
It's a 5-min blitz, and a little sloppy. But worth a watch, and many of the mistakes make for good little side lessons (e.g. why 44...Ke7 fails whereas 44...Kf7 wins for Black).
|Jul-25-15|| ||offramp: Uncopyrightable is the longest word in English with no repeat letters.|
|Aug-10-15|| ||TheFocus: Happy Birthday Frank!!
Thanks for the swindles.
|Aug-10-15|| ||eternaloptimist: Marshall was such a strong player defeating the likes of Janowski, Capa (twice), Pillsbury & Chigorin. Of course Capa beat him many times but you can't beat a World Chess Champ twice unless you're an extremely strong player. I still have fond memories of going to the Marshall Chess Club in NYC back in '95 & playing in a tournament there!|
|Aug-10-15|| ||TheFocus: <Of course Capa beat him many times but you can't beat a World Chess Champ twice unless you're an extremely strong player.>|
Or extremely lucky.
|Aug-28-15|| ||wordfunph: from Essay on Chess by Anthony Santasiere..
<So finally dear Frank had to die. (We all knew that towards the end he had a serious heart condition.) He had gone to Jersey City, alone, to play in a game of Bingo. Afterwards, walking on the street, he dropped dead. I went to the widow at once to console her. She was dry-eyed, and said, "Thank God! San - I gave him new underwear only this morning.">
|Nov-24-15|| ||ljfyffe: Soltis claims that Marshall
won the Montreal Club Chess Championship in 1893
but my research indicates that he only won the <handicap> tournament.
|Feb-05-16|| ||TheFocus: From the <Mechanics Institute Newsletter #722>: The following forgotten Frank Marshall simul game was discovered by <Eduardo Bauza Mercere>.|
Danish Gambit C44
Frank James Marshall–Edmund Bayly Seymour
Philadelphia (simul) December 12, 1916
1. e4 e5 2. d4 exd4 3. c3 dxc3 4. Bc4 cxb2 5.Bxb2 d6 6. Nf3 Nc6 7. O-O Be6 8. Bxe6 fxe6 9. Qb3 Qd7 10. Ng5 Nd8 11. Nd2 h6 12. Nh3 Nf6 13. Nf4 Qf7 14. Rac1 c6 15. g3 e5 16. Nd5 cxd5 17. f4 d4 18. Nc4 Nc6 19. fxe5 dxe5 20. Qb5 Qc7 21. Nxe5 Qxe5 22. Qxb7 Rb8 23. Qxc6+ Nd7 24. Qg6+ Kd8 25. Rf5 Qd6 26. Qxd6 Bxd6 27. Bxd4 Rg8 28. Rd1 ˝-˝
Source: <Philadelphia Inquirer>, October 21, 1917, page 6.
|Feb-09-16|| ||zanzibar: Near the conclusion of the <Marshall--Showalter (1909)> match, Marshall is quoted as saying he planned to retire from professional chess after playing in then upcoming Hamburg International Tournament.|
Good thing it was either a misquote, or Marshall later changed his mind.
From Nov. 23, 1909 Cincinnati Enquirer:
|Feb-17-16|| ||offramp: I think Marshall, more than any other top player, tried for piece activity above everything else. He would give up loads of pawns to get his knights, and secondarily his bishops, into good attacking positions. When it works out it is a Mt-St-Helens-like apocalypse of attack.|
|Aug-10-16|| ||TheFocus: Happy birthday, Frank Marshall.
I hope you are swindling everyone in Chess Heaven.
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