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Oct-12-05 | | karnak64: <Runemaster>, I owe you a belated thanks for your post (I just saw it). I remember that the announce said it was Andre Philidor, so I figured it was our guy. I appreciate the information. |
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Oct-31-05 | | James Demery: Can anyone tell me how to pronounce Philidor`s name? My french is not very good. To put it phonetically would it be Fee - ya - dor ? I read that his book on chess was very popular, but I doubt it is available now , but it would be an interesting read. |
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Oct-31-05 | | TruthHurts: fee-leedor(r in a french fashion) |
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Nov-11-05 | | AlexanderMorphy: he was probably the greatest player of his time...and the blindfold exhibition, well the people probably thought he was a god or something lol! |
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Jan-14-06 | | fvbvbvbvb: sicilian defence
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Jan-25-06 | | RonB52734: <James Demery> and <TruthHurts> Apropos of your pronunciation question:
I noticed last night, in a random moment, that the air fresheners in the men's room at the Pittsburgh Chess Club prominently bear the brand name "NILodor." So my question is: Well, I decided not to ask that question because, well, then this post would have to be deleted. Nevermind. ;) |
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Feb-14-06
 | | WannaBe: http://www.worldchessnetwork.com/En... Truly a great loss that no record of the games between Philidor and Stamma survived. Stamma introduced the algebraic notation in 1737. According to John McCrary (past USCF President) in Chess Life. |
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Feb-14-06
 | | WannaBe: http://www.angelfire.com/games/SBCh... I should also note that <SBC> have a very very well written article mentioning Stamma. |
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Feb-27-06 | | blingice: <BishopBerkley> That notation is twenty times worse than Yahoo's (practically), but yes, it is indeed a curiousity... |
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Feb-27-06 | | SBC: An example of Philip Stamma's book and notation:
http://sbchess.sinfree.net/StammaBo... |
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Feb-27-06 | | azaris: <SBC> Wonderfully clear early algebraic. Why did the chess world for centuries infest itself with the awful, awful, descriptive notation? Yuck! |
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Feb-27-06 | | SBC: <azaris>
Well, actually, I know several people who much prefer the relative descriptive notation to the absolute algebraic as it let's them describe the play from either point of view (white or black) without having to mentally invert the coordinates. I never had to learn descriptive notation as algebraic was en vogue when I learned the game and I do have some trouble when using books written in descriptive notation - however, perversely enough, sometimes when I discuss a game orally, I'll speak in descriptive notation (e.g. "I then moved my King's Knight to Bishop three.") I'm just glad we never had to use this mechanical notation recorder proposed by John Lowenthal: http://batgirl.atspace.com/chessrec... |
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Feb-28-06 | | azaris: <Well, actually, I know several people who much prefer the relative descriptive notation to the absolute algebraic as it let's them describe the play from either point of view (white or black) without having to mentally invert the coordinates.> With descriptive you have to mentally invert your opponent's moves every time. If you play out games from the white side using algebraic, you never have to invert. There are also other factors to it. An ideal notation should adhere to these principles: 1. No inversion of the coordinates required. This was already discussed. 2. No special cases for notation. This is unfortunately unavoidable in anything except long algebraic. The fact that in descriptive you either write NKB3, NxN, or NxKB3 for the same move, depending on whether the square is occupied and whether the knight can capture in more than way means there are three distinct ways of describing moves. Algebraic is somewhat better in this sense also. 3. Ability to glance at the notation and have a sense of what is going on. The worst example of this is the Yahoo!-notation 1. e2-e4 g8-f6 which gets completely obscure after a while. This also means that shouldn't go the Informator way and drop all notation for checks and captures. 4. Short, but not cryptic. Almost all current notations fulfill this criteria, though I'd have to argue that referring to files with the shorthand names of the pieces that occupy them in the beginning is quite cryptic until you get used to it. |
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Feb-28-06 | | euripides: Interesting in the English edition of Stamma that the translators not only leave the game in algebraic but also leave the letters for the pieces in French - d for a queen, etc. |
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Feb-28-06 | | euripides: On closer inspection, the knights are sometimes labelled by the file they come from rather than by the name of the piece. <Azaris> must have a training in cryptology to find this clear. |
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Feb-28-06 | | euripides: On closer inspection, I think all the pieces are labelled by the file they start on. Thus the queen's bishops remain c throughout the game. d for the queen is not 'dame' but 'the piece starting on b1' and likewise f is not 'fou' but 'the piece starting on f1'. |
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Feb-28-06 | | euripides: It used to be the case that pedantic descriptove notation labelled 'KR' and KKt' the pieces that started on the king's side, no matter where they end up. For that reason some older sets - including one in my posesssion - have the king's knight and rook marked to distinguish them from the queen's side pieces. That would also be necessary with Stamma's version of the algebraic system, but if the pieces were already marked to suit the descriptive system this wasn't a problem. |
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Feb-28-06 | | euripides: I guess that at some point people realised that in the algebraic system it was easier to denote the originating square on the board if there was a problem. Hence my guess is that sets with the KR and KKt marked died out earlier in Europe than in Britain. |
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Feb-28-06 | | euripides: ... the queen is d because it starts on d1 (b1 above is a typo). |
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Feb-28-06 | | euripides: Interestingly, with the exception of 'p' for 'pawn' - which is shared anyway between most European languages - Stamma's notation is effectively international, without requiring figurine characters. I guess one would get used to thinking of pieces by their squares of origin quite quickly. It'a an interesting feature of chess that Latin terminology was never standard, though there were scientific disciplines like chemistry that adopted Latin nomenclatures later. Chess in the middle ages was played as much by women as men and so I guess was naturally part of the vernacular rather than Latin culture. Were any of the major chess books written in Latin ? (The neo-Renaissance Latin epic Schacchi ludus is obviously an exception). |
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Feb-28-06 | | sigi: <vonKrolock> Your favourite quotation is an extract from "Poème des Echecs" by Abbé Roman.
According to Susanna Poldauf ("Philidor", Berlin 2001, page 62) it refers to the match in 1755 between Philidor and Légal. |
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Feb-28-06 | | sigi: Concerning the origin of the name "Philidor".
According to Poldauf (page 12) no secure data exist. One explanation: "Philidor" is the french form of the italian name "Filidori" and Louis XIII honoured Philidor's great-grandfather Michel Danican (c 1580-1651) with this name, because he reminded him on the italian musician "Filidori". |
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Mar-01-06 | | vonKrolock: <sigi: <vonKrolock> Your favourite quotation is an extract from "Poème des Echecs" by Abbé Roman.> Thank You very much, <sigi>, very kind: I hope it's comprehensible - that Susanna Poldauf's book is hard to find here-to-land... My source (that taried about Roman's authorship, although possessing the considerable merit of quoting his work accurately) was the "Bilguer" (edition 1916) |
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Mar-04-06 | | sigi: I'm somewhat confused.
Abbé Roman compares Philidor and Légal to Condé ("rapide, plein de feu") and Turenne ("circonspect et profound").It seems to me that Philidor plays in Turenne's style (supporting pawns rather than attacking), but the sequence of the names suggests the pair "Philidor-Condé". Did Légal play even more "turennic" than Philidor? Is my evaluation of Philidor's style incorrect? Is the sequence of the names meaningless? |
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Mar-09-06 | | vonKrolock: <sigi> Yes, we discussed already in this forum the characters of both french Generals, illustrating the discussion with some links; for Abbé Roman and his contemporaries it was even stronger and immediate the distinction between them - the order of the names in the poem follows some need in the economy of the construction while - if we can express in this way - "closed" form.
<Did Légal play even more "turennic" than Philidor?> It would be really very interesting to see more game-scores from that period - if we have to evaluate the style of a Chess-player just from descriptions from writers of course something can remain to be desired: well, the moves are not there - with the exception of a quick obliged brillancy showing the famous 'Légal Mate' – Diderot, in his “Le Neveu de Rameau”, refers to : “Légal le profond” and “homme d’esprit et grand joueur d’échecs”. For him, Philidor was just “le subtil” ... |
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