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| Mar-10-06 | | ckr: <azaris With descriptive you have to mentally invert your opponent's moves every time. If you play out games from the white side using algebraic, you never have to invert.> Of course I have some words on this subject. I don’t want to outright disagree with your viewpoint, but would rather present my own. I have a chess library that has grown quite a bit over my many years. Descriptive notation is a relative coordinate scheme, it requires no inversion, at least to those familiar with its use. Not that you have not used it or not familiar with it, rather that you were not raised with it, have not used it exclusively for over 30 years and from all the books in your library played those games in your minds eye from diagram to diagram. I find it actually easier to envision my opponents moves in relation to my own side of the board. 1.P-K4 P-K4 2.N-KB3 N-QB3 3. B-N5 etc. I can immediately see the position and the progression of the game in my minds eye, no confusion and no inversion required - I just see it. I used to work in an IHOP and could play chess with the other cooks using descriptive notation. Luckily for after game analysis, eggs came on a convenient 8x8 flat. Conversely, while playing an e-mail game, responding without use of a board, 1.e4 d5 2.f4 dxe4 3.Nf3 I thought I was playing a KGA until the e-mail came with 3...exf3, I gained and held an advantage with a muzio kind of offense but eventually lost after black was fully developed. It just could be the same as how a young child can easily learn several languages when exposed to them and having done so with descriptive notation for the majority of my life the absolute notation proves more difficult personally. However, there is no going back – game viewers and chess engines are never going to be written to use yesterdays standards and I will adjust. |
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| May-07-06 | | James Demery: Does anyone know if there is a collection of Philidor`s games with annotations? I`m curious if these are the only 22 games that are still available. |
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| May-11-06 | | Runemaster: <James Demery> I've wondered the same thing - and also about Greco's games. |
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| May-19-06 | | Runemaster: I've just uploaded a short collection of entited "Philidor: The Very Best". |
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| May-21-06 | | James Demery: I read on a site about Philidor that there are over 60 games of his that have survived , but I don`t know how to find them. I`m hoping that Bishop of Berkley reads this post. If they exist in cyberspace he could find them. He really knows his way around the web. I read that Kasparov wrote that Philidor was way ahead of his time. Philidor`s book Analysis of Chess is available for purchase ,but its fairly expensive. I wonder if it would be a helpful study all these years later? |
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| May-21-06 | | James Demery: Where is your game collection Runemaster? |
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| May-22-06 | | Runemaster: <James Demery> I forgot to paste the link. Here it is: Game Collection: Philidor: The Very Best |
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| Sep-01-06 | | BIDMONFA: François André Philidor PHILIDOR, François André
http://www.bidmonfa.com/PHILIDOR.htm
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Sep-05-06
 | | BishopBerkeley: <James Demery> Hello James: sorry I didn't see your post earlier! You may find the following 1832 version of George Walker 's amplified translation of Philidor's "Analysis" worthwhile (full digitized scan available online): http://books.google.com/books?vid=0... There's also quite a bit of interesting biographical material on Philidor in the Preface: http://books.google.com/books?vid=0... Walker's rendering of Philidor is dedicated to Alexander MacDonnell . All this courtesy of books.google.com, a grand attempt to place the storehouse of the best public-domain writing on the Web: http://books.google.com/
(Select "Full view books" below the search text-box to winnow out more recent, non-public-domain writings.) Hope this is helpful!
(: ♗ Bishop Berkeley ♗ :)
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| Sep-13-06 | | GlennOliver: Has anyone else noticed that the listed games of Philidor include no examples of the Philidor Defense (C41) ? I've also not found any such examples listed elsewhere. |
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Sep-13-06
 | | keypusher: <GlennOliver> Yes, that's been widely remarked on. It was in Lessing and Saidy's The World of Chess (1974). But there are only 22 Philidor games in the database, and in precisely none of them does White play 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 against Philidor. So he never got the chance to play it. |
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| Sep-19-06 | | Philid0r: Imagine: Philidor vs. Bobby Fisher. Who wins? i think Phili would kick fisher's ass. He was the greatest ever. Anyone agrees? |
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Sep-24-06
| | BishopBerkeley: Philidor, as he appears in Rousseau's "Confessions" (W. Conyngham Mallory translation): http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.a... From Book V
I did not like [Bagueret, who worked for Peter the Great of Russia], and
he plainly perceived this, for with me it is not a very difficult
discovery, nor did he spare any sort of meanness to gain my good will,
and among other things proposed teaching me to play at chess, which
game he understood something of. I made an attempt, though almost
against my inclination, and after several efforts, having learned
the moves, my progress was so rapid, that before the end of the
first sitting I gave him the rook, which in the beginning he had given
me. Nothing more was necessary; behold me fascinated with chess! I buy
a chess-board and a "Calabrois," and shutting myself up in my
chamber pass whole days and nights in studying all the varieties of
the game, being determined by playing alone, without end or
relaxation, to drive them into my head, right or wrong. After
incredible efforts, during two or three months passed in this
curious employment, I go to the coffee-house, thin, sallow, and almost
stupid; I seat myself, and again attack M. Bagueret: he beats me,
once, twice, twenty times; so many combinations were fermenting in
my head, and my imagination was so stupefied, that all appeared
confusion. I tried to exercise myself with Philidor's or Stamma's book
of instructions, but I was still equally perplexed, and, after
having exhausted myself with fatigue, was further to seek than ever,
and whether I abandoned my chess for a time, or resolved to surmount
every difficulty by unremitted practice, it was the same thing. I
could never advance one step beyond the improvement of the first
sitting, nay, I am convinced that had I studied it a thousand ages,
I should have ended by being able to give Bagueret the rook and
nothing more.
It will be said my time was well employed, and not a little of it
passed in this occupation, nor did I quit my first essay till unable
to persist in it, for on leaving my apartment I had the appearance
of a corpse, and had I continued this course much longer I should
certainly have been one....
From Book VII
I had another expedient, not less solid, in the game of chess, to
which I regularly dedicated, at Maugis's, the evenings on which I
did not go to the theater. I became acquainted with M. de Legal, M.
Husson, Philidor, and all the great chess players of the day,
without making the least improvement in the game. However, I had no
doubt but, in the end, I should become superior to them all, and this,
in my own opinion, was a sufficient resource. The same manner of
reasoning served me in every folly to which I felt myself inclined.
I said to myself: whoever excels in anything is sure to acquire a
distinguished reception in society. Let us therefore excel, no
matter in what, I shall certainly be sought after; opportunities
will present themselves, and my own merit will do the rest. This
childishness was not the sophism of my reason; it was that of my
indolence. Dismayed at the great and rapid efforts which would have
been necessary to call forth my endeavors, I strove to flatter my
idleness, and by arguments suitable to the purpose, veiled from my own
eyes the shame of such a state....
[continued]
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Sep-24-06
| | BishopBerkeley: [continued] Philidor, as he appears in Rousseau's "Confessions" (concluded): Also from Book VII
I lived with my Theresa as agreeably as with the finest genius in
the world. Her mother, proud of having been brought up under the
Marchioness of Monpipeau, attempted to be witty, wished to direct
the judgment of her daughter, and by her knavish cunning destroyed the
simplicity of our intercourse.
The fatigue of this importunity made me in some degree surmount
the foolish shame which prevented me from appearing with Theresa in
public; and we took short country walks, tete-a-tete, and partook of
little collations, which, to me, were delicious. I perceived she loved
me sincerely, and this increased my tenderness. This charming intimacy
left me nothing to wish; futurity no longer gave me the least concern,
or at most appeared only as the present moment prolonged: I had no
other desire than that of insuring its duration.
This attachment rendered all other dissipation superfluous and
insipid to me. I never went but for the purpose of going to the
apartment of Theresa, her place of residence almost became my own.
My retirement was so favorable to the work I had undertaken, that,
in less than three months, my opera was entirely finished, both
words and music, except a few accompaniments, and fillings up which
still remained to be added. This maneuvring business was very
fatiguing to me. I proposed it to Philidor, offering him at the same
time a part of the profits. He came twice, and did something to the
middle parts in the act of Ovid; but he could not confine himself to
an assiduous application by the allurement of advantages which were
distant and uncertain. He did not come a third time, and I finished
the work myself.
From Book X
My apartments at Mont-Louis being small, and the situation of the
alcove charming, I conducted the prince to it, where, to complete
the condescension he was pleased to show me, he chose I should have
the honor of playing with him a game at chess. I knew he beat the
Chevalier de Lorenzi, who played better than I did. However,
notwithstanding the signs and grimace of the chevalier and the
spectators, which I feigned not to see, I won the two games we played.
When they were ended, I said to him in a respectful but very grave
manner: "My lord, I honor your serene highness too much not to beat
you always at chess." This great prince, who had real wit, sense,
and knowledge, and so was worthy not to be treated with mean
adulation, felt in fact, at least I think so, that I was the only
person present who treated him like a man, and I have every reason
to believe he was not displeased with me for it....
http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.a... Of course, "The Confessions" of Jean-Jacques Rousseau is considered to be one of the great works of European literature (quite rightly, I think). It is interesting to see the role Chess played in the life of this complex, gifted man.... (: ♗ Bishop Berkeley ♗ :)
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| Oct-07-06 | | James Demery: Thank you for the links Bishop. Please forgive me for the long delay. I had not checked the Philidor page in a while , but I`m very grateful for you taking the time to post this information. Thank you so much. I wish I could remember your Latin salute. ;) |
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| Nov-16-06 | | Gioachino Greco: There are somewhere between ten and twenty example games in Philidor's own works (many probably composed), plus a goodly number recorded by Atwood that Philidor played in his old age (mostly blindfold and at odds). The Oxford Encylopedia of Chess Games contains all those in the second category. As to Greco, Professor Hoffman published a collection of 77 of his games, plus variations--totalling 120 if I remember correctly--in 1900. |
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| Nov-16-06 | | James Demery: Did Greco dominate in all those games? Every game I`ve seen of his he swept his opponent off the board. |
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| Nov-20-06 | | Gioachino Greco: <James Demery>
Yes, Greco won every game. |
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| Dec-04-06 | | GlennOliver: BishopBerkeley,
Thank you for the interesting quotations.
Rousseau wrote parts of his "Confessions" at Wootton Hall, which is adjacent to our own home, but not, as far as can be judged from the text, any of the chess references. |
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| Dec-04-06 | | adviser: I don't think that Philidor is better than Morphy as someone suggested before. I think that Morphy is the best chess genius in the olden times. |
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| Dec-19-06 | | Akuni: Didn't someone play two simultaneous blind fold games in the 1200's, though chess was a lot different back then so maybe it doesnt count |
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| May-11-07 | | actionhero56: find more philidor games, chessgames.com, he was the best chess player of his time, so why don't we have more of his games ! |
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May-11-07
 | | SwitchingQuylthulg: Because finding them is not easy. Not many of his games have survived. Remember that there's only one game by his teacher Légal, reputedly the strongest player in the world before Philidor overtook him. The chess world is lucky that even this many Philidor games have survived. But it's a pity that they're all games by an old man - I guess games by a young Philidor would be more interesting. |
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| May-21-07 | | Cannon Fodder: According to CG's bio of George Atwood, 47 of Philidor's games were published in the 1820's from notation taken by Atwood. Do any of the chess historians out there know where these games can be found? |
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| May-21-07 | | IMDONE4: A fitting player for the day. I still enjoy his extremely underrated Philidor's defense, that gives white absolutely no advantage with reasonable play. |
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