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Apr-27-21
 | | stevemcd87: <Stone> I've updated the tids of Vokac vs Geller, 1991 and Vogt vs Geller, 1991 to 17877 . The game page displays the infamous <ERROR: Invalid Game ID>, if the tid isn't valid.
URS-ch sf (1956) has also been updated.
<Speaking of which, it would be very handy if we could create our own tids, so that we can move games that are stuck in e.g. Candidates Match (1994) there.>
Would you like the ability to create a new Tournament or do you just want the ability to remove a game from a tournament?Regarding Tournament Index ,
Currently, it shows all tournaments that are kibitzable, with a total of 3262 events.
I've created a test page that checks for a "blessed" tournaments instead, a total of 791 events.
I'm not sure if the 'blessed" tournaments are used for somewhere else in the site, but perhaps we can use "blessed" tourneys rather than "kibitzable" tourneys for the Tournament Index🤷♂️.
We can start with the 791 events and add events or start with the 3262 and remove events.
Thanks for the help! |
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Apr-27-21
| | stevemcd87: Forgot to add the link to the test page : Tournament Index |
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Apr-27-21
 | | Stonehenge: <Would you like the ability to create a new Tournament> Yes. |
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Apr-27-21
 | | Tabanus: Hmpf. Think I prefer the Tournament Index version. Looking for pearls in the spew. But [1843-1881] [1882-1895] [1895-1903] [1903-1910] [1911-1920]
[1921-1926] [1926-1932] [1932-1937] [1937-1945] [1946-1951]
[1951-1955] [1955-1958] [1958-1961] [1961-1964] [1964-1966] what about adding more here, 1967-1969, ..., 2018-2021. |
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Apr-27-21
| | Tabanus: One can click from 1966 to 1981, then to 2000, then 2009, then 2013 (which is on 3 pages), then to 2016 (which is on 4 pages), etc. |
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Apr-28-21
 | | jessicafischerqueen:
<Steve>
Just one point, in case I misunderstood something you said. The most important tournaments are those currently in the <Tournament Index>. Therefore, it is the the events currently in the <Tournament Index> that are the most important to have kibbitzing enabled. The <Tournament Index> should not include any events that do not have a proper introduction with academic sourcing, and the current voting system for collections to enter the <Tournament Index> should be retained- pace <Tabanus's> wishes. I second his wishes. <Tabanus> has literally put thousands of man hours into creating and promoting TI events and researching/writing scholarly introductions. I would prefer that no tournaments be air lifted into the TI without some kind of vetting by historians- which is precisely why <Daniel> set up the system to begin with. Shoving every game in the database into the TI willy nilly, without requisite care, collection, and scholarship would dilute and cheapen the work <Tabanus> and <Chessical> and many, many others have done to date. Apologies in advance if I misunderstood anything you said above. |
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Apr-28-21
| | jessicafischerqueen:
<Stonehenge>
The "tournaments" collected in 365 chess are a disaster area- to the extent that it is not a reliable source for any inquiry into any tournament. Rusbase is better, but still prone to mistakes.
The best tournament index is our current <Tournament Index> in terms of accuracy and reliability. Nothing else on the internet is even remotely close. That said, I do agree that the <tid> system could work from the top down, as you suggested- make the <tid>, collect games and then games with alternate event tags could be added in to the proper tournament simply by adding in the correct <tid>. Actually I think that's a very good idea. The only weakness of the <TI> could then be addressed, which is the low number of tournaments listed, compared to 365Chess or rusbase or chessbase for example. The only quibble I have is what I said in my post above- the Tournament Index needs to remain separate, and it needs to retain the vetting and voting system that <Daniel> set up. Having a parallel system of two kinds of tournament doesn't seem like a problem to me. If someone wants to move a <tid> collected event into the <TI>, then let him/her research and write an intro and provide as many games, with as many accurate dates and rounds as possible- and then submit it for voting. If nobody can be arsed to do this work, then people can still find the tournament in the "B" section. The <TI> must remain the "A" section because of the quality of historical work that has gone into it already. |
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Apr-28-21
| | jessicafischerqueen:
<Steven> Final thought- why on earth shouldn't both kinds of tournament have kibbutzing enabled? In the case of <tid> collected tournaments without scholarly introductions, people could kibbutz information that would help us write a scholarly introduction, or make the game list more accurate. In the case of <TI> tournaments, it should be obvious to you why kibbutzing should be enabled- people are interested in these events, and want to talk about them. |
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Apr-28-21
| | Tabanus: For some events it's easier to make a game collection than it is to merge gids. I see no reason to remove the voting system, even if almost nobody are using it. On the vetting, my last 100 or so events with intro etc. have not been through the voting system. So they are not on Steve's vetted TI list either. For example European Championship (2010) is not on the list. And not the other 19 Eu Ch's. Even I made an effort to add more games, edit the standings and write an intro to all of them. Who are willing to go through the 3263 events and tell which are good and which are bad? |
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Apr-28-21
| | Tabanus: I have to say: not all of the "vetted" events are any "good" either. What about having only one TI list with all the events, and then in addition clickable links for the "main" events through the year: WC matches
Candidates tournaments
Wijk aan Zee
Dortmund
Linares
US Championship
Hastings
Russian Championship
etc. etc.
and then by clicking on Hastings, you'll get a list of all the Hastings events in TI. |
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Apr-28-21
| | jessicafischerqueen:
<Tab>
I think this is a good idea:
<Tabanus: I have to say: not all of the "vetted" events are any "good" either. What about having only one TI list with all the events, and then in addition clickable links for the "main" events through the year:
WC matches
Candidates tournaments
Wijk aan Zee
Dortmund
Linares
US Championship
Hastings
Russian Championship
etc. etc.
and then by clicking on Hastings, you'll get a list of all the Hastings events in TI.> |
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Apr-28-21
| | Tabanus: Sorted by year. And Hastings only.
This would then be in addition to what one gets in the Tournament Index search: "Hastings" |
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Apr-30-21
| | Tabanus: Deadlock? |
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Apr-30-21
| | Stonehenge: <The "tournaments" collected in 365 chess are a disaster area- to the extent that it is not a reliable source for any inquiry into any tournament.> You missed my point here. I was saying CG does better than 365 here because we have correctly Italian Championship semifinal instead of Rovigo Open. <the Tournament Index needs to remain separate, and it needs to retain the vetting and voting system that <Daniel> set up.> I have never liked it, I have always found it too snobistic (no offence meant). So a USSR Championship with no intro is not a Historical Tournament and some vague match that happens to have an intro is? Don't make me laugh. |
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Apr-30-21
| | Tabanus: Which USSR Championship has no intro? |
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| Apr-30-21 | | Z4all: The entire <TI> design was cobbled out of necessity as <CG> grew (and volunteers began contributing more and more). The framework itself needs a reworking. |
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Apr-30-21
| | Tabanus: <jessicafischerqueen <Tab> I think this is a good idea:> Yeah but wouldn't that list need to be made and maintained by hand. Sigh. <The framework itself needs a reworking.> How. |
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| May-01-21 | | Messiah: <stevemcd87: Forgot to add the link to the test page : Tournament Index> This is very good, finally it is a tiny bit easier to seek for correspondence games. |
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May-01-21
| | Tabanus: If everything has to be machine generated, here's another idea: show the entire "edit history" in a separate field under the bio field. For example, on the "historical chess event" URS-ch sf (1956) there would be a one-line field saying <04/24/21 (Edit history #1 Stonehenge)> Under the European Championship (2010) bio there would be a field saying <Edit history 04/26/18 (#1 Tabanus) 04/03/21 (#2 Tabanus) 04/03/21 (#3 Tabanus) 04/03/21 (#4 Tabanus) 04/05/21 (#5 Tabanus) 04/05/21 (#6 Tabanus) 04/05/21 (#7 Tabanus) 04/05/21 (#8 Tabanus) 04/05/21 (#9 Tabanus) 04/05/21 (#10 Tabanus)> And (most importantly), if there is no bio, such as in say Japfa Match (2008) or CSR-ch International (1969), the event would not be included in TI (but it could still be kibitzable). Is this kind of transparency technically possible? |
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May-01-21
| | Tabanus: Tab light version:
The link [edit history] moves to an immediately visible place at the top of the event page. When the history is blank ("VERSION= edited on by"), the event is not in TI. |
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| May-01-21 | | Z4all: <<Tab> ....
Sigh. <The framework itself needs a reworking.> How.> Let's start with the easiest and most obvious - < <CG> should allow for searching on <Event> and <Site> tags > - then it should be much more direct to find the tournament (via their games). Daniel never allowed such searches, probably because the PGN tags were a gigantic mess in the beginning (since the games were largely submitted one at a time by volunteers). I'm suspect a search on the Bistro were reveal many other suggestions from the past. |
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May-03-21
 | | MissScarlett: < We've updated the search pattern for null move in a games. It seems we should represent null moves with a "--", the ".." syntax can mean more than just a null move ( D Byrne vs Fischer, 1956 , see move 11 ). We are currently looking for "--", that are not within comments, to signify a null move game.> I don't understand this, but all I need to know is whether null move games can currently be played using Olga. |
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| May-04-21 | | Z legend of CG: Congrats to whoever finally eliminated the jitter on Olga moves (at least, I think the jitter's been fixed). RE: Null moves
Missy - looks like the current answer is still no. A Mongredien vs Staunton, 1841 FWIW-
Olga Viewer chessforum (kibitz #272) (historical link from 2020) |
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May-10-21
| | MissScarlett: Is all coding effort currently going into perfecting Aria, or is the failure to sort this issue with Olga down to it being a difficult beast to tame? I still use Olga as my default viewer, and the null move problem aside, I don't appreciate what advantages the new viewer is meant to have, at least from a user's perspective. |
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May-10-21
| | MissScarlett: https://www.chessgames.com/perl/che... Another quirk requiring explanation - the opening for all the Morphy-Maurian odds games are listed as <Chess variants> except one. |
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