< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Nov-02-12|| ||Refused: That one is pure gold
<csmath: <With what kind of juridical powers does the referee claim to seek access to his private cell phones>
Within tournament rules. If you play a tournament educate yourself and learn the rules. After all, referee was only asking to inspect the phone, not to confiscate it. You could refuse as he did.>
So, because I play a tournament I am obliged to let some random guy, who happens to be referee snoop on my cell phone with private or work data?
<This automatically means violation of anti-cheating rules. That is so because he had engine on the phone with positions from "previous games" according to his own admission. To me that sounds like a criminal that volunteers information not knowing that it actually implicates him.>
So Bindrich (or anybody else) is guilty until proven otherwise?
<I think this guy has been engaged in rampant cheating over a period of years ever since he was caught on playchess.>
Wasn't that Naiditch?
<His GM title was probably earned by cheating. That is a shame and a complete stain on tournaments he played in.>
So because he refused to give his cellphone to the arbiter (as is his right, as you pointed out earlier), he is now guilty of cheating during his entire career. Welcome to the McCarthy era of chess.
|Nov-02-12|| ||virginmind: the simplest measure is to ask all players that, upon entry inside the playing hall, to let their cell phones on a special designated place (table or whatever), and to be able to take back their phones only upon leaving the hall after finishing the games. the phones need be switched off as not to disturb the players if ringing.|
to ensure that, the arbiter should remind all players, just prior to starting of the round, of their obligation to leave the cell phones on that table, and also of the fact that if caught with cell phones in their possession during their game may result in forfeiture of the respective game.
|Nov-02-12|| ||parmetd: Computers can't ruin correspondence chess... they are legal there. All iccf titles are bestowed under the understanding that all forms of assistance are legal.|
|Nov-02-12|| ||qqdos: <virginmind> Why on earth should a chess player need a telephone or any other chess-calculating equipment on his person during a tournament?? If there is some anticipated emergency (e.g. imminent arrival of a baby) then contact should be arranged in advance with the tournament organisers. If he wants to play the stock market that day, then choose some other tournament. Messages can be left for the player to pick up when permitted by the rules and not when a game is "live"!|
|Nov-02-12|| ||TheFocus: <parmetd>< Computers can't ruin correspondence chess... they are legal there. All iccf titles are bestowed under the understanding that all forms of assistance are legal.>|
Only because there is no way to regulate their usage.
|Nov-02-12|| ||waustad: <virginmind> Forfeiture probably isn't enough. As the chair of my department said once about students cheating, giving them a 0 for a homework assingment is not a deterrent because they'd have gotten that anyway. It must be more severe. Dismissal from the Bundesliga for the season as a minimum seems reasonable. In that case, what happens with any promotional money they've received? Obviously they won't ever see any again.|
|Nov-03-12|| ||SteinitzLives: I think that part of the problem is the inconsistency and lack of clarity to both fide and uscf rules re cheating. It also does not help that a whole lot of how to handle cheating is left up to the discretion of the tournament directing officals. |
I have witnessed cheating directly in tourneys (use of hand held notation device that had pocket fritz on it) where the TDs' investigation was so weak, that the cheater got away with it and continued to cheat amassing a record of 40-3 before getting caught at a later tournament when a player he cheated against warned the TDs beforehand of the tourney where he was caught. That is not the proper solution to cheating!
|Nov-03-12|| ||Sneaky: Life sure was simpler when telephones didn't fit in your palm and double as supercomputers.|
|Nov-03-12|| ||HSOL: I reckon if caught computer-assisted a 2-year worldwide ban should be appropriate as standard, but it should need clearer rules and a real disciplinary committee. And a second-time offence, a lifetime ban, forfeit of ALL prize money won and stripped of ALL results and titles.|
And it should be as in sports regarding doping tests, refusing to be tested is considered a failed test.
But for these draconian rules to be fair, clearer rules and fair "trials" must be made.
|Nov-03-12|| ||parmetd: TheFocus, you're being absurd. Can you imagine trying to stay computers aren't allowed? That would also disbar all books, databases, and any other form of assistance - because computers might have contributed there as well. To go off on an anti-computer stance in correspondence chess is to dream of a time long past.|
|Nov-13-12|| ||JonathanJ: no, you are not obliged to let anyone check your cell phone. as you can obviously see from the fact that bindrich didn't let the arbiter check his cell phone and no criminal charges were filed. however, in this case it is the arbiter's right to disqualify bindrich. whether he is guilty or not is not relevant for this single case since he didn't follow tournament rules by even bringing a cell phone for all i know. the arbiter wasn't even obliged to offer bindrich to not disqualify him if he was showing his cellphone to him.|
|Nov-13-12|| ||JonathanJ: that was meant as a response to <Refused>|
|Dec-03-12|| ||Refused: <JonathanJ: that was meant as a response to <Refused>>
It is not forbidden to take your phones to the playing site.|
Afterall we are still talking about (very advanced) amateur level here. Most of those guys have a job outside chess. Normal IM or GM Joes out there, can't really make a living out of chess. Afterall Bindrich is not Anand, Aronian, Carlsen, Karjakin, Kramnik etc. I think this is worth mentioning, since it sounds like, he would/could make a big payday with cheating on that game. Anyway I got distracted here. Where was I? A yeah, it is permitted to bring your cell phone along. It is just not allowed to have them switched on. I usually have my cellphone on me, when I play in league games or in tournaments, too. It remains switched off in my pocket. The arbiters usually remind the players to switch their stuff out. Ofc I am far away from the playing level of Bindrich and co. so I don't even have one chess application on my phone.
BUt anyway, the case was about a league game (Bundesliga I think).
|Dec-07-12|| ||JonathanJ: Okay, you're right. But it should still be the arbiters right to disqualify him, at least as long as his cell phone wasn't switched of.|
|Dec-07-12|| ||Refused: <JonathanJ: Okay, you're right. But it should still be the arbiters right to disqualify him, at least as long as his cell phone wasn't switched of.>|
That's one thing. But here he simply refused to let the arbiter check his cellphone with private and work information. Ofc the arbiter can forfeit him. But some kibizers here go way over the top.
<cheated thru his entire career>
<guilty till proven otherwise>
And I find this paranoia is doing more harm than 1-2 cheats ever could.
Like I said, just read the summary of the events given by Bindrich, and you see what I mean.
|Jan-30-13|| ||mrbasso: <But some kibizers here go way over the top.>
Hardly, this is serious.
He is now banned for two years by the German Chess Federation for severe infringement and the case will be brought to FIDE Ethics Commission (with a German arbiter as member)
|Jan-31-13|| ||Refused: <mrbasso: <But some kibizers here go way over the top.> Hardly, this is serious.
He is now banned for two years by the German Chess Federation for severe infringement and the case will be brought to FIDE Ethics Commission (with a German arbiter as member)>|
Bindrich has contacted his lawyer. He accepts, that he was forfeited from the game over his refusal to let the arbiter check his cell phone (rightly so), but he is not willing to accept a two year ban.
|Jan-31-13|| ||Cemoblanca: Reminds me of a quote by Spassky:"...Bobby and myself committed the same crime. Put sanctions against me also. Arrest me. And put me in the same cell with Bobby Fischer. And give us a chess set."|
or, in other words: "...Ivanov, Feller & Co. & myself committed the same crime. Put sanctions agaist me also. Arrest me. And put me in the same cell with Ivanov, Feller & Co. And give us a chess set, smartphone(s), toilet(s) and a referee."
|Feb-24-13|| ||PhilFeeley: It's interesting the things people pay attention to. I often recognize the names of players in various tournaments when other people ask "Why is this guy?" I've seen their names in lots of tournaments so I recognize them. But all this cheating gossip has completely eluded me. When were <Naiditsch, Ivanov, etc.> accused of cheating? Where were those stories covered?|
|Feb-24-13|| ||Refused: Naiditsch was actually convicted, not simply accused.|
It was during some sort of online tournament when Naiditsch used computer assistance. His reason: "Everybody does that..." That was 10 years ago, or so. 2003 or 2004 roughly.
|Feb-24-13|| ||perfidious: <PhilFeeley> The information regarding the allegations against Borislav Ivanov can be found here: http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail...|
|May-04-14|| ||Angusxxx: http://de.chessbase.com/post/falko-...
There have been new depelopments in his case.He wants to sue the DSB for 68.000 Euros.|
|Sep-24-14|| ||Karpova: Bindrich's case was dismissed.
The <Deutsche Schachbund> banned Bindrich for 2 years on 19 January 2013, but this was dismissed and the ban lifted (2 March 2013) because of a hole in the regulations - The <Schachbund> didn't have the right to do so in this case, only the <Schachbundesliga e. V.>. So now Bindrich sued the <Schachbund> for more than €65,000.
However, this case was now dismissed - first of all, Bindrich couldn't prove so high a loss of earnings in that short time, and his own guilt was assessed so high that compensation was not regarded to be indicated.
Source: André Schulz, Bindrich-Klage abgewiesen, 24 September 2014, http://de.chessbase.com/post/bindri...
|Oct-17-15|| ||Paarhufer: <Player of the Day> Ugh!|
|Jul-09-16|| ||The Kings Domain: Nokia could use him as a spokesperson and model. :-)|
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