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Jan-09-10
 | | chancho: <jerseybob> That's right. |
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| Jan-09-10 | | mojonera: detroit was rated 2331 , his perfomance rating was 2519 , 11/16 . |
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| Jan-10-10 | | AnalyzeThis: Jerseybob: 1922-1931 could be considered 10 years, if you explicitly enumerate each year, you'll see 10 of them there. But, you guys do have a point that in 1924 Reshevsky played in the Western Championship, winning 10, losing 4, drawing 2, and in 1927, Reshevsky won 4, lost 2, and drew 2 at Kalamazo. These two events were probably part of summer vacations for Reshevsky, when he was not schooling. When chessgames writes: <He abandoned chess for 10 years to pursue a vocation as an accountant, receiving an accounting degree from the University of Chicago in 1933. >, I think the point is, Reshevky was going absolutely no study of the game, whatever. Yes, I he played in these two events, but the point is that he did not prep work whatever for them. There's actually an interesting bio of Reshevsky in his book "Reshevsky on Chess". (I have the 1948 edition, published just before the World Championship.) Here's an excerpt: <But Sammy's days as a child prodigy were drawing to a close. It was time to think of his education and his future. In 1924, the late Julius Rosenwald invited Sammy to his home in Chicago. Rosenwald immediately took a keen interest in the gifted child and promised to provide for Sammy's future if he settled down and devoted himself to aquiring an education. Sammy's parents readily consented...Sammy had a private tutor for about six months, then he passed a high school examination and entered Northern High School about the end of 1924. He also devoted himself to the study of singing and Hebrew. In 1929 he graduated from Northern High School with "fairly good marks". During this whole period, he played no serious chess, with the rare exception of a few simultaneous performances. In fact, chess was forbidden, so that he would have all the necessary time and opportunity to live a normal boy's life. He played tennis, baseball, swam, went dancing, mixed with boys and girls. He made friends readily, and did his best to hide his fame. Every summer he would spend a few days at the Rosenwald's summer home, where he would give one of his rare chess performances: a blindfold game aginst two of the younger Rosenwalds... In 1929, Sammy entered the University of Detroit, majoring in accounting... In 1931, Samuel Factor, Chicago's best player, was about to set out for Tulsa to participate in the Western Championship. 'Why not come along in my car?" It was a tempting offer... > So, apparently, it is the case the Reshevsky showed up for a couple of tournaments from 1922 - 1931, but in reading Reshevsky's bio, the idea is that these events were just for fun, Reshevsky wasn't doing any study of the game at all during this 10 year period. Then Reshevsky showed up at Tulsa, 1931, just because he on the spur of the moment accepted a car ride, and vacation, from Sam Factor, and wins the event outright with 6 wins, 0 losses, and 3 draws. It's all very remarkable, even if there were a couple of offhand tournaments in this time period. |
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| Jan-10-10 | | Caissanist: I updated the bio to reflect the information given above, here are the two sentences which I changed: <His benefactor was Julius Rosenwald, founder of Sears & Roebuck, who agreed to provide for Reshevsky's future if he devoted himself to completing his education. Resehevsky then largely abandoned chess for 10 years [...]> I believe that Resehevsky's first American simuls occurred when he was 8 years old, not 9, can anyone confirm this? |
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Jan-10-10
 | | Phony Benoni: <Caissanist> Here is a contemporary report on Reshevsky's arrival in the U.S.: http://books.google.com/books?id=2R... He arrived in New York on November 3rd. On page 168 is an account of the West Point simul, which appears to have been on November 10th. Since his birthday was November 26th, technically these events occurred while Reshevsky was still 8 years old. However, it might be more accurate to say "just before his ninth birthday". |
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| Jan-10-10 | | Marmot PFL: <<His benefactor was Julius Rosenwald, founder of Sears & Roebuck, who agreed to provide for Reshevsky's future if he devoted himself to completing his education. Resehevsky then largely abandoned chess for 10 years [...]>> Seems odd that someone who could master chess so quickly would take so long to finish school. (Fine did say once that Reshevsky's intelligence, outside of chess, was only about average.) |
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| Jan-11-10 | | Petrosianic: <Webb suddenly played 30...Nc5, banging the Knight on the square for psychological effect. Sammy sat bolt upright, looked at the position, and realized what had just happened to him.> If I pulled off a deception like that, I don't think I'd have the heart to rub his nose in it. I think I'd pretend that I'd suddenly found the move, after he had played Qd7. Reshevsky did seem to be on the short end of several famous swindles. There were the stalemate traps against Evans and Pilnick, the 1973 game that gave Robert Byrne his US title, and the 1958 Fischer game with Ne6! |
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| Jan-11-10 | | AnalyzeThis: He played so many games. There are always going to be stories like that. |
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| Jan-11-10 | | jerseybob: Analyze: Sorry, but your defense of the 10-year-no-serious chess theory just doesn't wash. You're saying a master tourney with many of the country's biggies at that time isn't serious chess? These(1924 and 1927) were the strongest tourneys he'd played in to date, and in the midst of that kind of company you'd best get serious or die. I don't know who made up this fable, Reshevsky himself or his handlers - probably the latter - but let's give it the decent burial it deserves. |
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| Jan-11-10 | | Caissanist: From Reshevsky vs Geller, 1953: <"41...Re1 Reshevsky did not conceal his surprise that Geller decided to play on. With an ironic smile he sat down at the board, ordered a cup of coffee and began slowly stirring it with his spoon. There was indeed no reason to hurry: the two extra pawns were a sure guarantee of victory." (Averbakh)53...Rf6
"It can be imagined with what pleasure Geller made this move, and how triumphantly he looked at his opponent. And Reshevsky? In the seconds remaining to the time control he began thinking intensively. At that moment Geller summoned a waiter, deliberately loudly ordered a glass of tea, and the unhurriedly began stirring in some sugar." (Averbakh)> It seems to me that Petrosianic (and Keres) may have a point. |
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| Jan-11-10 | | AnalyzeThis: jerseybob: no worries, Reshevsky played in two events in 10 years. Not disputing it. Hope you're also not disputing that Reshevsky didn't study chess during this period. It is impressive to return from such a period and then play strong chess; and would have been slightly more so if Reshevsky had played in 0 events in ten years. |
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Jan-11-10
| | chancho: <AnalyzeThis> Three events. New York 1922, Detroit 1924, and Kalamazoo 1927. |
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Jan-11-10
 | | keypusher: <Analyze This>
<Hope you're also not disputing that Reshevsky didn't study chess during this period. > Why bother to dispute such an absurd proposition? |
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Jan-11-10
 | | maxi: C'mon guys, be it two or four events in ten years, it is ridiculously insufficient to keep you on the ball (or pieces). I can't understand why he didn't get all rusty. |
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| Jan-11-10 | | jerseybob: I'm not sure how much Reshevsky EVER studied, at least systematically. He got caught in some major opening busts in his time(see his games vs. Fischer in the 1958 and 1966 U.S. Chps.in known opening blunders). Benko, in his big book from a couple years back, talks of agreeing to work with Reshevsky at some point years ago, but upon inspecting his chess library finding he had almost no books. Apochryphal? Maybe, maybe not. |
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Jan-11-10
| | chancho: A Sports Illustrated article on Sammy:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/va... Courtesy of <AnalyzeThis> who found the original link. |
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| Jan-11-10 | | AnalyzeThis: <keypusher>:
This is from Reshevsky's own book:
<During this whole period, he played no serious chess, with the rare exception of a few simultaneous performances. In fact, chess was forbidden, so that he would have all the necessary time and opportunity to live a normal boy's life. He played tennis, baseball, swam, went dancing, mixed with boys and girls. He made friends readily, and did his best to hide his fame. Every summer he would spend a few days at the Rosenwald's summer home, where he would give one of his rare chess performances: a blindfold game aginst two of the younger Rosenwalds... > I take it to mean what it says. You apparently know better. On what basis do you dispute the bio on Reshevsky that appears in Reshevsky's book? |
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Jan-12-10
| | keypusher: <Analyze This> For several reasons. First of all, the bio is contradicted by the facts. It says he didn't play any serious chess during this period. But he did. Second, the bio refers to a five-year break from chess, from 1924-1929. You claim a ten-year break. Third, you claim that he "completely abandoned" chess, that "he didn't study at all" and that he did "no prep work" for the tournaments he played in. That's all out of your own head. It's not in your source. Fourth, neither you nor I nor even Julius Rosenwald nor Reshevsky's parents have the slightest idea what Reshevsky did with his spare time over a ten-year period. Absolute claims like he "completely abandoned" chess are by their nature unprovable. |
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| Jan-12-10 | | Jim Bartle: AT: I'm confused. You refer to that quoted section as from his "own book," but it refers to him in the third person. Which book is that? |
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| Jan-12-10 | | AnalyzeThis: Jim - the book I have in front of me was published by Samuel Reshevsky in 1948, just before the World Championship match. It is called "Reshevsky On Chess", by Samuel Reshevsky, United States Chess Champion, and is subtitled: "The U.S. Champion tells how he wins". The first 264 pages were written by Reshevsky in the 1st person - the last section in the book is "About the Author" - written by somebody else, obviously, by read by Reshevsky, no doubt. The quote that I published above is from the About the Author section. |
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| Jan-12-10 | | Jim Bartle: thanks, AT. |
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| Jan-12-10 | | AnalyzeThis: When Pete Sampras retired, he actually played some tennis matches. For example, he played Roger Federer, losing, and winning, in some exhibition matches. Yet - people don't really take these seriously, they were just for fun.
In Reshevsky's book, Reshevsky himself directly addresses another period where he left that game - this was around 1944, when Reshevsky also stopped studying chess, to focus on becoming a certified public accountant. Reshevsky didn't play in the US Chamionship that year. But - Reshevsky writes that in the summer, the US Open literally came to the town where he just happenned to be on vacation, so he figured "there didn't seem to be any harm in competing in this one tournament so, after a brief argument with my conscience concerning the wisdom of spending a vacation playing chess, I entered". So, Reshevsky just showed up - no prep work - and won the US Open. So, it would have been in this same spirit that Reshevsky played in two chess events, over the period from 1922 (after beating Janovsky) to 1931. What comments does the bio in Reshevsky's book make about this 10 year period? <During this whole period he played no serious chess... > <In fact, chess was forbidden, so that he would have all the necessary time and opportunity to live a normal boy's life. He played tennis, baseball, swam, went dancing, mixed with boys and girls. He made friends readily.> <... and he did his best to hide his fame.> <Every summer he would spend his summer at the Rosenwald's summer home...> <where he would give one of his RARE chess performances: a blindfold game aginst two of the younger Rosenwalds.> <In 1929, Sammy entered the University of Detroit, majoring in accounting. In 1931, he moved to Chicago, where he completed his studies and obtained his degred.> Chess isn't even mentioned against until 1931, when Samuel Factor shows up, and invites Reshevsky to come along in a car ride with him, and Reshevsky accepts on the spur of the moment, to go to the tourament in Tulsa, where Reshevsky wins outright. This tournament would have <after> Reshevsky got his degree - this was the entire point of Reshevsky's conversation with Rosenwald, who was paying for all this - Rosenwald wanted Reshevsky to complete his education first. After beating Janovsky in 1922:
1922 - no tournaments for rest of 1922
1923 - no tournaments
1924 - 1 tournament
1925 - no tournaments
1926 - no tournaments
1927 - 1 tournament
1928 - no tournaments
1929 - no tournaments
1930 - no tournaments
1931 - no tournaments until Sam Factor takes Reshevsky to Tulsa, and Reshevsky wins. (On page 21, Reshevsky writes: "Hence the urge to play chess was still within me during my school years, even though I had dropped out of sight as a chess player. I yielded to this urge in 1927, when the Western Championship was held in Kalamazoo, near my home in Detroit. "AFTER FOUR MORE YEARS OF CONCENTRATION ON NORMAL STUDIES, opportunity knocked again. Samuel Factor... was driving to Tulsa... At his invitation, I accompied him. SCHOOL WAS OUT, AND IT WAS A CHANCE FOR A PLEASANT VACATION, IF NOTHING ELSE." - Reshevsky) On page 22 in his book, Reshevsky himself writes (speaking of 1932:) <Reshevsky: But thes tournaments taught me a lesson.... I simply had to learn openings. I went home to study chess for the first time in my life!> This period (1922 to 1931) definitely constitutes a break from chess, and well justifies Chessgames.com's comment that Reshevsky "largely abandoned" chess for 10 years. Fine wrote once that he became a master before he ever opened a chess book. Reshevsky seems to be have been blessed with that same natural skill. <Reshevsky - I went home to study chess for the first time in my life!> I hope this is clear enough. |
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Jan-12-10
| | chancho: <AnalyzeThis: After he beat Janowsky> That was in a tournament, New York 1922:
search "Reshevsky 1922" |
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Jan-12-10
| | keypusher: <I hope this is clear enough.> I declare, <Analyze This>, that's the closest you've come to providing evidence for anything you argued in the past five years. Was it love for Reshevsky or embarrassment over seeing your claim disproven by your own source that spurred you on? I prefer to think it was the former. |
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| Jan-12-10 | | AnalyzeThis: Yes, I knew that, chancho. His win over Janovsky was his best moment in the tournament. |
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