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Fabiano Caruana vs Magnus Carlsen
Carlsen - Caruana World Championship Match (2018), London ENG, rd 10, Nov-22
Sicilian Defense: Lasker-Pelikan. Sveshnikov Variation (B33)  ·  1/2-1/2
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 31 OF 31 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Nov-23-18  PJs Studio: I think what the announcers mean by “lost” is not just the move chosen... but also the halfassed/crappy moves they come up with afterward in the booth. Caruana and Magnus would crush any of them right now - and they are all mighty players.
Nov-23-18  PJs Studio: Parachessus, VERY well written my friend. As an American I am routing for Caruana and American chess... but your points are eloquent and very well thought out. I’m impressed sir!
Nov-23-18  dTal: I am really impressed by the level both players are showing. Truly amazing. Hope they keep it up, and hope gentleman Fabi wins!
Nov-23-18  LlanelliCC: If Caruana wins he will be the first ever Italian world champion.
Nov-23-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: <Parachessus> -- Heh, I know what you mean. Incidentally, I can't think of any writer or commentator who has specifically zoned in on the psychology of the long-lived champion. Some great players, such as Tal and Spassky, went off the boil after winning the title, and just weren't as strong afterwards. But others, like Botvinnik, Karpov and Kasparov, stayed at the top for many years.

Were they defending alpha male status, as you suggest? Quite possibly. Botvinnik certainly regarded himself as the patriarch, and Karpov always had something to prove after taking Fischer's title without a fight.

I wouldn't be too surprised if Carlsen proved to be one of those who go off the boil after a while.

Nov-23-18  ajile: <thegoodanarchist:>

It's also about what the money gives you, mainly freedom from being a capitalist slave and at a ridiculously young age.

Nov-23-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  rogge: The money's split 60-40, so there's plenty for both. So the match is not about the money.
Nov-23-18  frogbert: <If Fabiano wins it won't be because of any self-sabotage by Magnus. It will be because he's stronger than Magnus.>

Somebody will eventually win this match. Currently I don't think any of the two is stronger than the other - at least not in classical chess. They've got slightly different strengths, and I think it's fair to consider them the two currently strongest players in the world.

If the match has a winner after 12 rounds, I will stick to my view that they are equally strong, right now. In classical chess.

No matter who comes up on top eventually, it will be a worthy winner and world champion. It just doesn't make anyone the de facto strongest player. It makes him the de facto world champion. :)

Nov-23-18  starry2013: rogge: <The money's split 60-40, so there's plenty for both. So the match is not about the money.>

I find that pretty ridiculous as well. Often in high level invitational chess tournaments you find this too, that even someone who finishes last still makes a decent amount.

Nov-23-18  starry2013: Mudphudder: <We really shouldn't be surprised that this is going to a 10-game draw already. Even a mediocre (dare I say) challenger like Karijakin was able to force Magnus into the rapids to defend his title.

Obviously a player of Caruana's caliber would definitely do at least as well as Karijakin.>

World championship matches tend to be tense and close with all the pressure, plus Carlsen is looking to hold onto his no1 position. In a way most of the pressure is on Carlsen.

Nov-23-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Joshka: <LlanelliCC> He's an American, born in Florida.
Nov-23-18  starry2013: He's dual national. He sometimes uses his Italian passport in Europe to get around easier.
Nov-23-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  thegoodanarchist: < frogbert: <If Fabiano wins it won't be because of any self-sabotage by Magnus. It will be because he's stronger than Magnus.>

Somebody will eventually win this match. Currently I don't think any of the two is stronger than the other - at least not in classical chess.>

I agree.

Before the candidate's tournament, I thought FC should not be considered a favorite to win it. I was wrong.

During that tournament FC played great chess, and I have nothing but admiration for him hanging on against Kramnik in what may have been a lost position, and actually winning the game.

And since that tourny, FC has played so well he practically equalized with Carlsen in rating.

In classical chess, MC was always stronger than FC until the last year or so. Now they are clearly equal.

My impression, although I don't follow pro chess closely, is now FC dispatches "lesser" players at about the same rate MC does, and this is true even for 2600s GMs.

Whatever FC did to raise his game, it legitimately worked and he is to be commended for it.

Nov-23-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <He does like hip-hop so maybe there is something rebellious beneath his orderly facade.>

Liking hip-hop right now is about as rebellious as liking the New Christy Minstrels was in 1970.

Nov-23-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <Dom....Karpov always had something to prove after taking Fischer's title without a fight....>

That he did, and did he ever; Karpov turned out tournament wins with an adamantine consistency no titleholder had displayed since Alekhine's purple patch of 1930-34.

Nov-23-18  ajile: <rogge: The money's split 60-40, so there's plenty for both. So the match is not about the money.>

The difference is the guy that wins can buy a HOUSE free and clear and STILL have 400 grand left over.

Nov-24-18  frogbert: Let me rephrase rogge slightly: It's certainly not about the money, for Carlsen. Regarding Caruana, I can't know for sure, but I doubt the money is a top three motivation for him, either. I would bet serious money that it isn't on top of his list.
Nov-24-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  OrangeTulip: <perfidious> to descripe Fischer as a titan of history like Galileo and Newton is one of the most hilarious comments I have seen the last years. Or a good sense of humour or a somewhat unbalanced sense of proportions
Nov-24-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <OrangeTulip>, to hear them tell it, there are posters here who come across as such towering figures.

Have to allow some humour every now and again.

Nov-24-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Dionysius1: Hi <agile>. I think you have to account for 20% FIDE tax, local taxes and payments to seconds. But there'll certainly be income over the next year from sponsorships for the winner.
Nov-24-18  RandomVisitor: A last look at the position after 23...Qg5


click for larger view

Stockfish_18112008_x64_modern:

<63/96 +1.20 24.Bxb5 Rf6 25.Re1 Rg6 26.Bf1 Bf5 27.Ra4 Bg4 28.f3 exf3 29.gxf3 Bd7 30.Ra2 Bd8 31.Qd4> Bxb6 32.Qxb6 Rh6 33.Qf2 Qxd5 34.Ra3 Rxa5 35.Bc4 Qxc4 36.Rxa5 Bc6 37.Ra3 Re6 38.Rxe6 Qxe6 39.Qb6 Bd5 40.Qa5 Qe5 41.Qc3 Kf7 42.Kg1 Qxc3 43.Rxc3 g5

Nov-25-18  Howard: Doesn't it seem a tad strange that the game ended shortly after the 46th move, in which White had a one-pawn edge according to Stockfish?
Nov-25-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: Could well be; this R+3 vs R+2 is a most favourable version for the side with the extra pawn, in that Caruana has the rook pawn on h5. This should still be drawn, but perhaps White might have probed and prodded a while longer.
Nov-27-18  dTal: <frogbert: <dTal: If Fabiano wins it won't be because of any self-sabotage by Magnus. It will be because he's stronger than Magnus.>

Somebody will eventually win this match. Currently I don't think any of the two is stronger than the other - at least not in classical chess. They've got slightly different strengths, and I think it's fair to consider them the two currently strongest players in the world.>

My comment was made before the classical section was over. The tie shows they are equals in classical. I 'm not a fan of the rapid tie-break, bit it is what it is. Still rooting for Fabi but I think Magnus will take it.

Nov-27-18  Petrosianic: The main match has already shown the players to be equal. The tiebreaker is just to see which of them gets the title.
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