< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Jan-13-09|| ||sillybilly47: J.W. Baird 3-0-2 vs. Bird. Not bad.|
|Jan-14-09|| ||sneaky pete: Not bad at all, if one considers that John Washington Baird and Bird only played 2 games against each other, of which the first one was drawn.|
|Jan-15-09|| ||sillybilly47: Sneaky Pete, I beg to differ. Chessgames own data base lists five games: A pair of 24 move wins,a 16 move win,a 40 move draw and a 52 move draw.In addition, one of the wins was off a Bird's opening. Are you a Bird fan?|
|Jan-16-09|| ||sneaky pete: <sillybilly47> Huh? This database has 5 games between these two gents? Well, it's on the internet, so it must be true. And yes, I am a fan of Mr. Bird, in fact I am his Number Two Fan on this site.|
|Jan-16-09|| ||Morphischer: Amazing! This guy's still alive.|
|Jul-06-09|| ||myschkin: . . .
John Washington Baird
"Of the Baird brothers, David G. is the better player by far. He plays with characteristic Scotch carefulness, for he is of Scotch descent. Of medium height, he is inclined to stoutness, and is of light complexion. His brother John W. is very thin, although he looks like his brother in the face. He was one of the slowest players in the tournament."
(source: NY Times, 1889, p.8)
His younger brother David Graham Baird , who was also an American chess master.
|Jul-06-09|| ||WhiteRook48: he had a Baird|
|Dec-27-09|| ||Autoreparaturwerkbau: <Morphischer: Amazing! This guy's still alive.> Yep, and more ... it's all set for his 158th birthday already.|
|Feb-22-16|| ||TheFocus: Happy birthday, John Washington Baird.|
|Jun-14-17|| ||zanzibar: As far as Edward Winter is concerned, it seems that John Washington Baird is indeed still un-deceased: C.N. 5711.|
|Jun-14-17|| ||zanzibar: I have seen some giving his dod as 1923, but without reference.|
|Jun-14-17|| ||Tabanus: https://www.ancestry.com/interactiv... = from Berlin, Germany, Deaths, 1874-1920, says he died in Berlin 8 May 1917.|
He applied for Am. passport at the American embassy in Berlin 26 April 1916, for continued residence in Germany, to which he came in 1912.
|Jun-14-17|| ||whiteshark: <Tab> I'm a bit confused about his date of death (d.o.d.) due to the following incompatible dates :|
Your source says <Berlin 8 May 1917>
while wiki leaks only y.o.d. <1923> referring to <Jeremy Gaige, Chess Personalia: A Biobibliography, McFarland & Company, 1987, p. 19>
|Jun-14-17|| ||Tabanus: <Sharkie> I think Gaige may be wrong, there is a death of a "John W. Baird" in the US almost every year, and he may have picked one of those. I've also seen 1926, and 1928. The Berlin Deaths states "John Washington Baird", of which there may be several, but the passport application in Berlin 16 April 1916 (applying for continued residence) has "John W. Baird" born 22 Feb 1852 in New York City. There are pitfalls - I'd say 99% sure it's him.|
|Jun-14-17|| ||whiteshark: Thanks for your clarification/explanation, <Tab>, much appreciated! I have no access to 'Ancestry' and thus couldn't follow your link.|
|Jun-14-17|| ||Tabanus: <ws> I feared that it was not open-able, and apparently only Anc. dot com has it. There is a good deal of German handwriting on the form which I can't understand, but "ach(ten) Mai" seems certain. I find two John Baird's d. 1923, https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/... and https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/..., but it's neither of those.|
|Jun-14-17|| ||Tabanus: 1910 census Lexington Avenue, Manhattan, New York:|
<Baird John W.>, Lodger, 58, b. in New York, married 9 years, Own incomer, <Baird Lucy>, Lodger, 29, b. in Germany, married 9 years, Governess Private Family. I find no marriage record.
|Jun-14-17|| ||Tabanus: There exists a quite thorough family tree but with two mistakes: they have married Lucy abt. 1912 (no source, should probably be abt. 1901), and d. in Germany abt. 1915. They have seen the passport application of 1916, but not that it was at a US embassy (in Berlin).|
|Jun-14-17|| ||Tabanus: Oh dear, I see only now that the passport application (of April 1916) has a page 2 as well. It says he left New York in end of May 1912, and (typewritten):|
<I came abroad to see some relatives of my wife's. I haven't since had money to live anywhere else or to return> and
<I have relatives in the United States. Children of my brother> and <I have no income> and <I have not money enough to return at this time>
And I note that his brother David died in 1913, and his sister Sophia in 1914. I'd like to read the Berlin death certificate, but the Gothic handwriting is too much. The wife is mentioned, apparently something like "Lucie Rössler".
|Jun-14-17|| ||Tabanus: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903... and next page 1226.|
|Jun-14-17|| ||MissScarlett: <while wiki leaks only y.o.d. <1923> referring to <Jeremy Gaige, Chess Personalia: A Biobibliography, McFarland & Company, 1987, p. 19>>|
Gaige (in the 1987 edition, at least) doesn't give a DOD. It's possible this citation was was only meant to refer to Baird's DOB.
Sad to hear of Baird's wartime plight. As an American in a Germany that was suffering food shortages caused by the Allied blockade, it's possible his death was hastened by privation.
|Jun-14-17|| ||zanzibar: I agree with <MissS> on the wiki citation, especially as it also contained:|
<The date and place of Baird's death are unknown.>
 being the Gaige reference again.
 being the Winter CN previously mentioned.
All his final tournaments were German, so I suspected he may have relocated, though 1912 is after the last of them. His relocation helps explain why finding his dod was so difficult.
Crackerjack work <Tab>.
Wonder why 1923 got so widely disseminated (though Wall gave 1910(?)) ... ?
I also wonder if we know what he did as a vocation, other than chess? I saw a mention of a like named person performing music in NY during his time there.
Also, did the two brothers really come from Canada?
And finally, who is going to inform Winter?!
|Jun-14-17|| ||Tabanus: No Canadian connection. 1860 census New York Ward 21 District 5:|
Willm. (?) Baird, 49, Carpenter, b. in New York
Sarah Baird, 30, b. in N Hampshire
Sarah E, 12, b. in New York
Caroline M, 10, b. in New York
<John>, 8, b. in New York
David, 5, b. in New York
1870 census New York Ward 12 District 6:
John Baird, 52, Builder, born in New York
Sarah, 40, Housekeeping, born in New Hampshire
<John>, 18, Apprentice to Carpenter, born in New York
David, 15, Apprentice to Carpenter, born in New York
Sophia, 8, born in New York
1880 census 109 Street New York:
John Baird, 63, Carpenter & Builder, b. New Brunswick, parents b. in Scotland
Sarah Baird, 56, keeps home, b. in New Hampshire
<John W Baird>, 28, Carpenter, b. in New York
D. Graham Baird, 25, Lawyer, b. in New York
Sophia, 17, Attending College
|Jun-14-17|| ||zanzibar: Another myth busted it seems.
I suppose the one brother remained a carpenter, a bit unusual for chess players of that era (although, if Paulsen could be a farmer, why not?).
Thanks <tab>, gg.
|Jun-15-17|| ||zanzibar: The two brothers weren't that far apart at their peaks, according to EDO chess:|
D.G. (2340, 323, [1883, 2398, 18])
J.W. (2251, 263, [1891, 2358, 27])
Average, Games, [Peak yr, rating, games] )
So 100 point separation over career average, but only 50 point difference in peak rating (so peak D.G. vs peak J.W. is ~ 5.8/10 more winning).
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